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Post by Ragger on Jun 18, 2008 9:32:18 GMT -5
Hi. John, Is it just a GEB or is it called something else?
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Post by John on Jun 18, 2008 9:41:23 GMT -5
Hi. John, Is it just a GEB or is it called something else? Thats an odd one Bill, as there is a motor attached to it, must be some kind of control for something. It's certainly not a gate end box though! Any other piccies of it at different angles?? I wonder if it's a selft contained pump with controls?? It's fairly modern looking at the motor and it's connection box and restrained cable socket.
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Post by John on Jun 18, 2008 9:46:29 GMT -5
If thats 22mm haulage chain sitting on the top, I'd say the motor would be about 4 or 5HP and the box about 18 inches long or thereabouts, it looks like there is some kind of gauge on the top left hand side of the front, don't look like an ammeter though!!!! Or a voltmeter.
Could it be some kind of test set up?? Checking tension of something like cable belt ropes, rope haulage or something like that???
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Post by Ragger on Jun 18, 2008 10:32:38 GMT -5
Hi. John, Is it just a GEB or is it called something else? Thats an odd one Bill, as there is a motor attached to it, must be some kind of control for something. It's certainly not a gate end box though! Any other piccies of it at different angles?? I wonder if it's a selft contained pump with controls?? It's fairly modern looking at the motor and it's connection box and restrained cable socket. Sorry John, no more angles of it. But here's a different pic.
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Post by John on Jun 18, 2008 10:35:59 GMT -5
A jumble of gear Bill, in the middle is an oil circuit breaker, a motor to the left, looks like the box under the oil circuit breaker is a slip ring motor starter, thats about it.
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Post by dazbt on Jun 19, 2008 3:54:09 GMT -5
Hi. John, Is it just a GEB or is it called something else? I can't say what it is either, but I agree with John that it looks like some sort of hydraulic power pack. I reckon that it's part of a lashing chain on top of it, I think I can make out the shape of a hook. It's unlikely to be any sort of tensioning arrangement it doesn't look robust enough, but it could have been used to feed pulling up rams or maybe Desford chocks. What do your old contacts from Plessley reckon Bill?
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Post by Ragger on Jun 19, 2008 5:56:33 GMT -5
What do your old contacts from Pleasley reckon Bill? Hi. Daz, I was taking a picture of something else and noticed this when I looked at my pics later. I haven't asked anyone at Pleasley but I will when I next go there. I know I've seen it in the pit somewhere but can't remember what it was used for. I've done the Rubik cube and the Sudoko cube but this has beat me.
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Post by dazbt on Jun 19, 2008 6:54:47 GMT -5
an after thought, maybe a power pack for an hydraulic boring rig, seems dinky enough.
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Post by John on Jun 19, 2008 7:40:52 GMT -5
I'll bet it's a chain tensioner! Maybe for a shearer haulage chain? I know we used spring tensioners, but maybe someone thought an automatic tensioner would function better?? OR for initial tensioning of the haulage chain, recall the dangerous way it was done in the past?
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Post by John on Jun 19, 2008 7:43:58 GMT -5
Looking at the other picture Bill, the motor, OCB and starter are all one, for a surface installation.
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Post by Ragger on Jun 19, 2008 7:46:07 GMT -5
You may have hit on something there Daz, Maybe the methane borers used something similar. I had the odd shift with them in the 70's.
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Post by Ragger on Jun 19, 2008 7:48:09 GMT -5
Looking at the other picture Bill, the motor, OCB and starter are all one, for a surface installation. We'll get the answer before long John.
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Post by John on Jun 19, 2008 7:53:08 GMT -5
I'll go with the chain tensioner Bill, the hole on the left hand side looks like it's for a chain if you look at it carefully, plus the unit is very thin, as if designed to be mounted on the headframe of the AFC. I'll bet the gauge measures foot pounds or some measurement like that.
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Post by dazbt on Jun 19, 2008 13:12:26 GMT -5
I'll bet it's a chain tensioner! Maybe for a shearer haulage chain? I know we used spring tensioners, but maybe someone thought an automatic tensioner would function better?? OR for initial tensioning of the haulage chain, recall the dangerous way it was done in the past? Beechdale ram tensioners replaced the old "der 4spring frogen halfthumb technic" method, the Beechdale was a much safer method of tensioning the haulage chain, but still required a great deal of courage to operate. Sorry John but I had to smile at the thought of an electrician operating a haulage chain spring tensioner, the electricians I remember needed gloves, googles and a "Sylvester" to wind a pocket watch up. ;D
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Post by John on Jun 19, 2008 14:03:07 GMT -5
I'll bet it's a chain tensioner! Maybe for a shearer haulage chain? I know we used spring tensioners, but maybe someone thought an automatic tensioner would function better?? OR for initial tensioning of the haulage chain, recall the dangerous way it was done in the past? Beechdale ram tensioners replaced the old "der 4spring frogen halfthumb technic" method, the Beechdale was a much safer method of tensioning the haulage chain, but still required a great deal of courage to operate. Sorry John but I had to smile at the thought of an electrician operating a haulage chain spring tensioner, the electricians I remember needed gloves, googles and a "Sylvester" to wind a pocket watch up. ;D Gloves and goggles??? Did they have them in the 60's Daz?? I was brought up under the Mech/Elec scheme, under much objection from myself and the other elec apprentices, to my dismay when we went in to see the engineer, he said "If Igive you a reasonable request, you will carry it out, and that could include filling the shearer with tellus oil, if you don't like it, I can terminate your apprenticeships right here and now" How do you follow that one?? So it was assist in jib and chain changes, working up to out elbows in the haulage end of shearers and helping tensioning haulage chains of shearers using the Anderson Boyes method! Hairy at the best of times, downright scary ALL the time, especially dropping the plate in the spring when the shearer was stalled against a staker!Pocket watch?? I used a pocket sundial during my apprenticeship let me add!!
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Post by linbylad on Jun 19, 2008 16:44:27 GMT -5
Yo' tell 'em, John, just because us sparkies have superior intelligence don't mean we are wimps . I served my time in Notts No. 6 area under the mech/elec scheme even earlier than you, John. The work I did was 90% mechanical but I didn't mind because it meant unlimited o/time. The only work fitters did was on sump pumps and such. I am glad I did the mechanical work because the experience came in handy when I later joined Anderson Mavor (USA) Ltd. as a service engineer in 1978. About 1961 the mine started to move mechanical work over to the Mechanical Engineering Dept. It was done gradually, starting with belt drives and AFC gear and finally the cutting stuff. As each face finished it's section and the equipment was transfered it was taken over by the fitters. The electricians who were smart enough to have passed their exams or knew the secret of the three wires remained electricians and the thick 'uns became fitters . After this the electricians had it good and this led to the impression that we were soft. I spent a lot of time thinking up tricks to play on the fitters such as filling the bottom of their tool bags with ring bolts and watching them hump them back to the manrider. They never found out until they opened the bag up when they crawled through the the face next shift to fix something in the tail-gate ;D. A previous post mentioned the danger of tensioning the haulage chain. This has reminded me of my "master trick". The chain was being tensioned by the "normal' method of staking the shearer and the stable hole charge-hand was trying to pull the haulage chain guillotine out, which was missing the welded on ring, so he was gripping the guillotine itself! Needless to say the stake failed and the chain tightened up. His fingers were too far down and he lost the top of his middle finger (ouch). We patched him up and he left for the surface. Me and the fitter took over the removal of the guillotine so we could retrieve the fingernail for a souvenir (well, the fitter removed the guillotine and I gave him encouragement). All we found was a little moisture. I was disappointed and thought the incident needed more to commemorate it so I took an empty Hedges snuff tin and knocked a hole in the bottom big enough to let me put my finger through from underneath. I then made a ring of cotton wool from the first aid kit and painted it red with a magic marker I carried. I placed this in the tin, put the top back on and put it in my pocket. Later the seam overman came on the district to make an accident report. I told him I had saved the severed finger tip and wondered whether it could be grafted back on to the poor guy's finger. He asked to see it so I put my hand in my pocket, pushed my finger through the hole in the tin bottom and showed the tin to the overman. He asked me to show the finger to him. I took the top off the tin and showed him my finger nestled in the blood-stained cotton wool and when he bent down to have a closer look and his nose was about a foot from the tin I wiggled my finger! He jumped back and the look on his face was priceless! The guys standing around were in on the deal and were rolling around laughing. How I didn't get reported for this I don't know but that kind of thing was common at Linby at that time. It was a great place to work.
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Post by John on Jun 19, 2008 17:55:04 GMT -5
Yo' tell 'em, John, just because us sparkies have superior intelligence don't mean we are wimps . I served my time in Notts No. 6 area under the mech/elec scheme even earlier than you, John. The work I did was 90% mechanical but I didn't mind because it meant unlimited o/time. The only work fitters did was on sump pumps and such. I am glad I did the mechanical work because the experience came in handy when I later joined Anderson Mavor (USA) Ltd. as a service engineer in 1978. About 1961 the mine started to move mechanical work over to the Mechanical Engineering Dept. It was done gradually, starting with belt drives and AFC gear and finally the cutting stuff. As each face finished it's section and the equipment was transfered it was taken over by the fitters. The electricians who were smart enough to have passed their exams or knew the secret of the three wires remained electricians and the thick 'uns became fitters . After this the electricians had it good and this led to the impression that we were soft. I spent a lot of time thinking up tricks to play on the fitters such as filling the bottom of their tool bags with ring bolts and watching them hump them back to the manrider. They never found out until they opened the bag up when they crawled through the the face next shift to fix something in the tail-gate ;D. A previous post mentioned the danger of tensioning the haulage chain. This has reminded me of my "master trick". The chain was being tensioned by the "normal' method of staking the shearer and the stable hole charge-hand was trying to pull the haulage chain guillotine out, which was missing the welded on ring, so he was gripping the guillotine itself! Needless to say the stake failed and the chain tightened up. His fingers were too far down and he lost the top of his middle finger (ouch). We patched him up and he left for the surface. Me and the fitter took over the removal of the guillotine so we could retrieve the fingernail for a souvenir (well, the fitter removed the guillotine and I gave him encouragement). All we found was a little moisture. I was disappointed and thought the incident needed more to commemorate it so I took an empty Hedges snuff tin and knocked a hole in the bottom big enough to let me put my finger through from underneath. I then made a ring of cotton wool from the first aid kit and painted it red with a magic marker I carried. I placed this in the tin, put the top back on and put it in my pocket. Later the seam overman came on the district to make an accident report. I told him I had saved the severed finger tip and wondered whether it could be grafted back on to the poor guy's finger. He asked to see it so I put my hand in my pocket, pushed my finger through the hole in the tin bottom and showed the tin to the overman. He asked me to show the finger to him. I took the top off the tin and showed him my finger nestled in the blood-stained cotton wool and when he bent down to have a closer look and his nose was about a foot from the tin I wiggled my finger! He jumped back and the look on his face was priceless! The guys standing around were in on the deal and were rolling around laughing. How I didn't get reported for this I don't know but that kind of thing was common at Linby at that time. It was a great place to work. Check out the Linby page, it has two Youtube still photos video! coalmine.proboards23.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=potem&thread=294&page=1
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Post by dazbt on Jun 20, 2008 16:40:44 GMT -5
Hi. John, Is it just a GEB or is it called something else? I reckon this is the same unit, but opposite hand, showing the two electricians responsible for keeping it wound up; . (it's a nuclear clock by the way)
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Post by John on Jun 20, 2008 17:10:00 GMT -5
I keep tellin yers Daz, I only had a small sundial, I could shine my caplamp on it to see what time it was. For some reason it always showed knockoff time!
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Post by dazbt on Jun 21, 2008 1:08:04 GMT -5
I keep tellin yers Daz, I only had a small sundial, I could shine my caplamp on it to see what time it was. For some reason it always showed knockoff time! I'll bet that many reading about your U/G sundial don't believe it, but they were used underground many moons ago, as you may well remember, we've discussed these before, elsewhere.
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Post by John on Jun 21, 2008 7:26:21 GMT -5
I keep tellin yers Daz, I only had a small sundial, I could shine my caplamp on it to see what time it was. For some reason it always showed knockoff time! I'll bet that many reading about your U/G sundial don't believe it, but they were used underground many moons ago, as you may well remember, we've discussed these before, elsewhere. Well it's all true Daz, used to keep it in a small tin to keep the dust out of it, never could find out how to wind it up!
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Post by Ragger on Jun 21, 2008 9:23:32 GMT -5
I keep tellin yers Daz, I only had a small sundial, I could shine my caplamp on it to see what time it was. For some reason it always showed knockoff time! I know Daz and John have seen this photo before but for those who haven't this is a pit bottom sundail. (It's on the right hand side).
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Post by dazbt on Jun 21, 2008 11:30:37 GMT -5
I was always completely intrigued by the pit bottom boxhole sundials, now, they truly were works of engineering ingenuity. The sundials apparently only became redundant in the 1880s as the coal mines became much deeper in the then new exploitation to the East of the South Yorkshire coal field with pits being sunk around Doncaster, but continued to be used in the older shallower pits of the North East, West Yorkshire and Somerset. Personally I believe that the cause of their failure was more likely to have been brought about by the new militancy that was growing within the new workforces of new deeper mines, rather than any sort of technical failure in not being able to modify these sundial time pieces to compensate for the increased problems inherent in transferring sunlight through the much greater distances of these deeper shafts. The very fact that the problem of using these sundials during the hours betwixt sunset and sunrise by means of incorporating the ingenious so called CLCD device (the contra-rotating luminary capacitance device). This clever arrangement ensured that the daylight luminescence transferred to the pit bottom by means of the well known and understood principles of mirrored prismatic offset transference modules, was then positioned in a suitable line of lateral ray transference and by means of the pneumatically driven rotating reflective lenses, supported within the vertically mounted highly polished segmental mirrored cylinder, the light was literally captured and kinematically conserved, only needing to be released in short bursts to allow a deflected beam sufficient in intensity and duration for a quick witted pit bottom deputy to make a graduated and accurate observation of the time. This of course solved completely the problem of previously not being able to take time registration during night shift operations, it would therefore be assumed that it wouldn’t have been impossible to somehow surmount the problem that eventually led to the pit bottom sundial’s demise, which was of course the inherent offset to real surface time due to the delay in transmission of light rays to the pit bottom dial arrangement through the much greater distance of these newer deeper workings. Apparently this anomaly was identified by the then newly unionized workmen at Rossington Colliery, who actually called for strike action which led to most of the South Yorkshire Coalfield being brought to a standstill for several weeks. The miner’s main complaint was that these sundial readings were grossly inaccurate as a result of the afore described delay in light traveling down the 900 yard deep shafts, obviously it was to their disadvantage and coal owner’s gain to have this extension of time added to their shift, the argument was that they started their shifts by descending the pit based on pit top sundial readings in real time, whereas they were only allowed to ascend at the end of a shift dictated by the delayed time reading of the pit bottom sundial. The coal owners obviously couldn’t argue the facts and not wanting to lose production profits resulting from further labour stoppages it was decided that six pence would deducted from each miner’s fortnightly wage and a fund set up to enable pocket watches to be purchased for each pit bottom deputy and one for a mutually elected workman’s watchman on each shift, in order that a synchronized and agreed riding time was adhered to.
In compiling the above note, reference has been taken from the Coal Owner’s Sympathetic Arbitration and Disputes, volume 1001 and particularly chapter 17a that details the effect of the Doncaster Dial Delay Dispute of January 1880
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Post by Ragger on Jun 22, 2008 6:51:39 GMT -5
Good description Daz, but perhaps some credit should also be given to those who pioneered the use of reflected sunlight. Egyptians used mirrors to peer inside the pyramids, to bring light down there. The Lighthouse of Alexandria on the ancient island of Pharos (one of the Seven Wonders of the World) Had a mirror, mounted on it, which it is said, could reflect the light more than 35 miles off-shore. It has been said that the Greek scientist Archimedes used mirrors to set fire to Roman ships during the siege of Syracuse.
However, perhaps the disputes between the mine owners and the workforce, whilst on many other issues, the workforce had legitimate concerns, the sundial disputes were purely due to jealousy. The pit-bottom deputy, and many of the management team, were benefiting from visiting the sundial area and they were the picture of health, they looked radiant and had the most wonderful tans imaginable. Naturally the miners wanted their fair share of these beneficial health enhancing rays, but the owners would have none of it as the miners wanted to reap the benefits in shift-time. This would effectively reduce coal production significantly, which was a step too far.
The men walked out on strike, but the owners decided to starve them back to work. They knew the men lived from day to day and would not last a fortnight. After 6 weeks nothing had changed and pleas for a settlement were issued from all sections of the country, politicians and the clergy included.
Neither side would give way until it was "decided that six pence would deducted from each miner’s fortnightly wage and a fund set up to enable pocket watches to be purchased for each pit bottom deputy and one for a mutually elected workman’s watchman on each shift, in order that a synchronized and agreed riding time was adhered to".
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Post by Ragger on Jun 22, 2008 6:54:43 GMT -5
Good description Daz, but perhaps some credit should also be given to those who pioneered the use of reflected sunlight. Egyptians used mirrors to peer inside the pyramids, to bring light down there. The Lighthouse of Alexandria on the ancient island of Pharos (one of the Seven Wonders of the World) Had a mirror, mounted on it, which it is said, could reflect the light more than 35 miles off-shore. It has been said that the Greek scientist Archimedes used mirrors to set fire to Roman ships during the siege of Syracuse. Needless to say the sundial was removed. However, perhaps the disputes between the mine owners and the workforce, whilst on many other issues, the workforce had legitimate concerns, the sundial disputes were purely due to jealousy. The pit-bottom deputy, and many of the management team, were benefiting from visiting the sundial area and they were the picture of health, they looked radiant and had the most wonderful tans imaginable. Naturally the miners wanted their fair share of these beneficial health enhancing rays, but the owners would have none of it as the miners wanted to reap the benefits in shift-time. This would effectively reduce coal production significantly, which was a step too far. The men walked out on strike, but the owners decided to starve them back to work. They knew the men lived from day to day and would not last a fortnight. After 6 weeks nothing had changed and pleas for a settlement were issued from all sections of the country, politicians and the clergy included. Neither side would give way until it was "decided that six pence would deducted from each miner’s fortnightly wage and a fund set up to enable pocket watches to be purchased for each pit bottom deputy and one for a mutually elected workman’s watchman on each shift, in order that a synchronized and agreed riding time was adhered to".
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Post by Ragger on Jun 22, 2008 6:56:36 GMT -5
Sorry, the last part should be.
Needless to say the sundial was removed.
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Post by dazbt on Jun 22, 2008 8:00:43 GMT -5
Good description Daz, but perhaps some credit should also be given to those who pioneered the use of reflected sunlight. Egyptians used mirrors to peer inside the pyramids, to bring light down there. The Lighthouse of Alexandria on the ancient island of Pharos (one of the Seven Wonders of the World) Had a mirror, mounted on it, which it is said, could reflect the light more than 35 miles off-shore. It has been said that the Greek scientist Archimedes used mirrors to set fire to Roman ships during the siege of Syracuse. However, perhaps the disputes between the mine owners and the workforce, whilst on many other issues, the workforce had legitimate concerns, the sundial disputes were purely due to jealousy. The pit-bottom deputy, and many of the management team, were benefiting from visiting the sundial area and they were the picture of health, they looked radiant and had the most wonderful tans imaginable. Naturally the miners wanted their fair share of these beneficial health enhancing rays, but the owners would have none of it as the miners wanted to reap the benefits in shift-time. This would effectively reduce coal production significantly, which was a step too far. The men walked out on strike, but the owners decided to starve them back to work. They knew the men lived from day to day and would not last a fortnight. After 6 weeks nothing had changed and pleas for a settlement were issued from all sections of the country, politicians and the clergy included. Neither side would give way until it was "decided that six pence would deducted from each miner’s fortnightly wage and a fund set up to enable pocket watches to be purchased for each pit bottom deputy and one for a mutually elected workman’s watchman on each shift, in order that a synchronized and agreed riding time was adhered to". I realise of course that it might all seem a bit far fetched but I can assure you it is perfectly true. Like you Ragger I had heard rumours about such timepieces being used many years ago, but took it all with a pinch of salt, that is until I actually came across one still being used at Hickleton Main in Thurnscoe sometime in the late 1960s. I had been called out to a shearer breakdown on 33s unit in the Parkgate late at night, I managed to trace the fault to being simply a piece of muck in an hydraulic relief valve orifice, about twenty minutes saw the offending foreign body discarded, the shearer away cutting coal, so I set off to walk to the pit bottom on my way out. I eventually reached the pit bottom at about 3.o’clock in the morning, only to find that there wasn’t an onsetter, I walked round to the boxhole and as I approached I was aware of an extremely bright light and increase in air temperature, I admit to being a bit panicked at this point and fearing the worst, that there was probably a fire within the boxhole I drew a big breath and kicked the door open, the sight before me was absolutely unbelievable, both the onsetter and the pit bottom overman were completely naked, both wearing nothing other than a pair of sunglasses each and both stretched out on the writing benches, the bright light was in fact the now defunct sun dial’s CLCD device, no longer used to pass the powerful reservoir of captured sunlight onto the non existent sun dial, but now being used as a sun bathing solarium by these two and no doubt others on opposite shifts. So that was proof enough for me at least that these pit bottom sun dials did actually exist and were likely to have functioned adequately. Re that Archie Meades bloke you mentioned, I wouldn’t believe one word of anything he said, I remember him being involved in a couple of major court case, one where he falsely claimed design copyright on The Mono Pump and the other where he was convicted of running naked through the Syracuse town centre screaming Eureka and looking up Roman tourist's kilt with a mirror on a stick, that was in fact where the rumours began and he picked up the name Flasher.
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Post by John on Jun 22, 2008 8:13:52 GMT -5
Ya know, some kid who has never seen a headstock in his life is going to read this rubbish and believe everything you two post!
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Post by John on Jun 22, 2008 8:15:17 GMT -5
The above was posted with a wide grin! ;D
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Post by Ragger on Jun 22, 2008 13:27:45 GMT -5
If you noticed I said the sundial was removed, I never said the sunlight reflection devices were removed. As usual the workmen were conned, and management, along with a few "in the know" workmen who were sworn to secrecy, continued to reap the benefits. A secret society evolved, SOSS, (save our sun society ) men took oaths never to reveal the existence of the pit bottom health farm, which is why so many people are unaware of them today. The pit bottom health farms were referred to by members as SOSS POTS, (the name eventually given to the members themselves, SOSS POT). SOSS POT was later corrupted to toss-pot but its original name remains pretty much a secret.
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