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Post by John on Jun 22, 2008 13:40:34 GMT -5
Hmmmm.
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Post by dazbt on Jun 22, 2008 17:03:47 GMT -5
Ya know, some kid who has never seen a headstock in his life is going to read this rubbish and believe everything you two post! I couldn't believe my eyes when I read the statement that included "This Rubbish", when he was the man who brought up the topic of U/G sundials and not only that, but posted claims that he knew of Pit Electricians who actually got dirty and even quotes fancifull claims that suggest that there were periods of history when Electricians actually physically/manually worked underground as opposed to delegating everything other than than the three wire coupling finale. This topic is beginning to become a bit ‘Deja Vous’, but ………. here yer go, now is the time to tell the true story of underground solar power, I realise that after the last flurry of tales that this one is hardly likely to be believed by anyone, but on oath I swear it to be true. In the mid to late 1980s I assisted in the design and manufacture of a power supply to be used on a coal face shearer, that was based entirely upon the use solar panels mounted onboard the shearer. Before I explain much further I have to say the original concept was entirely that of a my electrical opposite number a Mr. Tony Webster, I believe that this idea was eventually patented but not credited to Tony. The next bit won’t mean a great deal to many, but some might get a grasp of what I am trying to relate; I spent a good deal of my working days (and nights) with Anderson Strathclyde involved with the 420 Buttock Shearer, a machine designed specifically to cut and load relatively thin seams, down to 800mm coal sections. To say that this was the most diabolical machine that I had ever worked on would be understating the engineering problems that it threw back at us, but equally opposite it was the finest thin seam shearer that ever cut coal when it was operating correctly. Basically the lack of a reliable oil level monitoring system was the reason that brought about the innovative possibilities of using solar cells. Most of the separate oil containing compartments were inaccessible directly, either out of normal dipstick testing reach, sight glass or drain level monitoring, mainly due to the minimal clearance over the top of the machine and to the face side. Cutting a long story short after many attempts to apply and make work various new technologies including; six foot long flexible dipsticks, detaching magnetic dipstick floats and probably the best of all, fibre optic prisms, basically to shine a cap lamp light along a fibre optic strand and then observe reflected light from plastic prism ends set at various levels in an oil chamber, if a light was reflected back it indicated that oil wasn’t covering the prism inserted within the oil compartment and the level of oil could be determined ………… it worked superbly until subjected to coal face working conditions where the fibre optic bundles were easily broken and basically the reflected light was lost in transmission……….. so, alternative electrically monitored float sensors were tested in surface trials and found to work successfully, the problem was how to provide electrical power to these add on units, external battery power was unacceptable and design of an integral transformed power supply would take the best part of a year (or more) to gain full FLP acceptance, and at that point Tony Webster suggested that perhaps sufficient electrical supply could be obtained by using solar cells powered purely by cap lamp that would provide sufficient voltage / amperage to operate LEDs initiated by the operation of commercially available liquid float monitoring indicators. one, I seem to recall all the necessary parts were purchased from Radio Shack for less than £10, the electrical output was within acceptable limits and it worked, basically by shining a cap lamp into a box at the goaf side of a shearer we were able to monitor oil levels within all the machines units, did it ever get used?……… no, but I believe that the idea did manage to gain an accepted patent that could now possibly be used in both the coal and petroleum industries. |
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Post by John on Jun 22, 2008 17:27:20 GMT -5
You should check out the new wage agreements in NSW mines down under Daz, electricians are now part of the face teams as team leaders directly responsible to a Deputy for production. Could say we were foolish enough to get dragged into it due to assisting the teams during slack times to maintain high bonus levels. I've driven shuttle cars, got the nickname "Vent tube" too!!! I'll elaborate on that one another day. I drew the line at driving the continuous miner though! I did my spell as T/G and M/G shearer driver, face advancing and chocking. Even though I say it myself, I was a good shearer driver, left a good floor and roof! Chocking was boring, standing in one spot and just hitting buttons and waiting for a "string" of chocks to go through their motions. Then I was also responsible for getting belts running too when on the longwall, we had a personnel carrier stationed in the M/G as emergency transport, so I could get to an outbye belts quicker than any of the other electricians. Must say though, we were lazy with the NCB, things were different in private enterprise though!! We HAD to work, better pay too! Made it all the more worthwhile. Thats when I caould afford my first pocket watch and retired my old pocket sundial.  |
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inbye
Shotfirer.
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Post by inbye on Jul 16, 2008 13:41:26 GMT -5
Don't know about u/g sundials.........we had an experimental solar powered shearer, at Park Mill. I know what your thinkin', "never get sunlight all the way to the face"
These were special "Black" solar panels, the idea was they absorbed the *sunlight* that had been absorbed by the plants, when the coalseams were laid down. When a cut was taken off, the locked in *sunlight* was released and powered the panels..........sort of NCB perpetual motion.
No idea what the first power pack/chain tension thingy is, but 99% sure the second pic is an early DC arc welding plant. The early ones were a motor driven "dynamo" type generator, so arranged to provide DC power...
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Post by dazbt on Jul 16, 2008 17:39:07 GMT -5
Don't know about u/g sundials.........we had an experimental solar powered shearer, at Park Mill. I know what your thinkin', "never get sunlight all the way to the face" These were special "Black" solar panels, the idea was they absorbed the *sunlight* that had been absorbed by the plants, when the coalseams were laid down. When a cut was taken off, the locked in *sunlight* was released and powered the panels..........sort of NCB perpetual motion.... I spent quite a bit of time working at the Spring Wood end over the years and the mention of using alternative energy systems there doesn't surprise me one bit, it was the only pit that I ever worked at where the shaft signals were still the ancient wire rope with two steel plates being clanged together, the cage probably had an eight man capacity, but could only get six on because the cage gates opened inwards .............. one of the best attitude pits that I have ever worked though, brilliant set of lads. |
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Post by John on Jul 16, 2008 17:44:39 GMT -5
Cotgrave had a BJD that was nuclear powered, it drew it's power from the slightly radioactiveness of the coal. There was a nucleonic head on the front of the machine pointing at the seam, it collected all the gamma rays and converted them to heat. Basically the machine was really steam powered. Face crew used to drop the mash cans on the boiler of the shearer and by snap time water was hot enough to mash tea for snap. ;D
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Post by shropshirebloke on Jul 16, 2008 18:16:11 GMT -5
A while ago an old mate of mine posted a story on a local internet forum about how he and his family had found a stray pet rabbit on the old Granville pit site in Telford, and adopted it. This was my reply:
"I think you're being a bit economical with the truth there Cobbler. The unfortunate animal's history was explained to you when you signed the secrecy agreement as a condition of being allowed to keep your interesting "pet".
Granville or to give him his proper name "Giant Rabbit Automated Nuclear-Varied Intensive Low level Excavator" was the result of co-operation between the Coal Board's experimental division and the Atomic Research Establishment at Aldermaston.
Early trials proved promising - he could dig 300 metres of 11' x 11' roadway through sandstone in 24 hours, and his droppings gave off an eerie blue glow that could have revolutionised mine lighting. Unfortunately flaws soon became apparent - he was totally unresponsive to his handler's commands, and incapable of following surveyors' drawings. What should have been ruler-straight headings resembled a ball of string when seen in plan view, and failure to have him neutered led to several unfortunate incidents when he "got the urge", which for a rabbit is normally about fifteen times a day. The final straw was what can only be described as a bloodbath, when a group of miners who had ignored the strict ban on taking lettuce and carrots underground had their snap break rudely disturbed by what can only be described as the erruption of a twenty foot long rabbit through the floor of their workplace. The gruesome task for the rescue team, shovelling their mangled remains into dirt bags for transport to the surface, can only be imagined.
As usual, it was decided to hush things up, and relatives were told that their husbands, fathers or sons had died heroically trying to rescue others after a massive roof fall. The decision was made to entomb the now blood-crazed rabbit with a series of carefully controlled explosions. All seemed well for three months, but no one had realised the full extent of the genetic modification brought about by his exposure to intense levels of radiation. Within three months he had burrowed his way from 2,000 feet below Lilleshall to emerge just behind the old Council Depot at Donnington. His strong, if somewhat innacurate homing instinct led him back to the canteen at Granville Pit, where on his arrival he had entertained miners by being able to drink the coffee without any apparent ill-effects. It must have been around this time that you befriended him."
You know what they say - truth is often stranger than fiction.......
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Post by John on Jul 16, 2008 18:20:40 GMT -5
That was real funny, we had an old feller at the inbye bunker site could rattle off a good tale and keep us occupied for hours. I'd have tears rolling down my cheeks and a gut ache to last all day, and all for the cost of a pinch of snuff.
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Post by dazbt on Jul 16, 2008 18:24:10 GMT -5
Cotgrave had a BJD that was nuclear powered, it drew it's power from the slightly radioactiveness of the coal. There was a nucleonic head on the front of the machine pointing at the seam, it collected all the gamma rays and converted them to heat. Basically the machine was really steam powered. Face crew used to drop the mash cans on the boiler of the shearer and by snap time water was hot enough to mash tea for snap. ;D Humbug ........................... no Gamma radiation from coal, any measureable gamma is emitted from non organic material, (I think) The principle that natural Gamma steering system was based upon, ie, measuring the roof coal thickness by its absorption or resistance to natural Gamma emitted from the roof shales / rock  But you could make ice lollies on compressed air turbine driven shearers, which seems near enough, especially on hot dry coal faces, Barnsley Bed at Frickley for example. However SB's "Granville" tale sounds totally feasable, I can easily accept that. |
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Post by shropshirebloke on Jul 16, 2008 18:27:07 GMT -5
...and if you think "GRANVILLE" sounds far-fetched, what about "SIVAD" on the face panels? On the plate it said "Signal Indication Visual Audible Device". It was years after that the penny dropped - SIVAD = DAVIS (of Derby) backwards....
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Post by John on Jul 16, 2008 18:32:57 GMT -5
...and if you think "GRANVILLE" sounds far-fetched, what about "SIVAD" on the face panels? On the plate it said "Signal Indication Visual Audible Device". It was years after that the penny dropped - SIVAD = DAVIS (of Derby) backwards.... We learned that sivad was davis in reverse at training centre when we did an advanced apprentice training course. |
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Post by dazbt on Jul 16, 2008 18:34:12 GMT -5
...and if you think "GRANVILLE" sounds far-fetched, what about "SIVAD" on the face panels? On the plate it said "Signal Indication Visual Audible Device". It was years after that the penny dropped - SIVAD = DAVIS (of Derby) backwards.... REILLOC Chain was another, the director was Collier, I think. |
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Post by John on Jul 16, 2008 18:34:27 GMT -5
Cotgrave had a BJD that was nuclear powered, it drew it's power from the slightly radioactiveness of the coal. There was a nucleonic head on the front of the machine pointing at the seam, it collected all the gamma rays and converted them to heat. Basically the machine was really steam powered. Face crew used to drop the mash cans on the boiler of the shearer and by snap time water was hot enough to mash tea for snap. ;D Humbug ........................... no Gamma radiation from coal, any measureable gamma is emitted from non organic material, (I think) The principle that natural Gamma steering system was based upon, ie, measuring the roof coal thickness by its absorption or resistance to natural Gamma emitted from the roof shales / rock But you could make ice lollies on compressed air turbine driven shearers, which seems near enough, especially on hot dry coal faces, Barnsley Bed at Frickley for example. However SB's "Granville" tale sounds totally feasable, I can easily accept that. I can assure you it's as true as the Easter bunny dropping by to see Father Xmas Daz! |
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Post by shropshirebloke on Jul 16, 2008 18:34:32 GMT -5
John wrote: "We learned that sivad was davis in reverse at training centre when we did an advanced apprentice training course."
I was never that advanced!!!! ;D
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Post by John on Jul 16, 2008 18:36:17 GMT -5
I'll have to put up a board for abbreviations next! WICAS Winster, indicator, call alarm system.
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Post by shropshirebloke on Jul 16, 2008 18:41:24 GMT -5
I was shocked to be told by an ex-contractor recently that they always reckoned NCB stood for "No **** Bothers" - am I the only one who'd never heard it before? |
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Post by dazbt on Jul 16, 2008 18:45:27 GMT -5
I was shocked to be told by an ex-contractor recently that they always reckoned NCB stood for "No **** Bothers" - am I the only one who'd never heard it before? You certainly weren't, but us Tykes preffered No Chocolate Biscuits, being more polite. |
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inbye
Shotfirer.
Posts: 114
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Post by inbye on Jul 17, 2008 12:50:50 GMT -5
......forgot to say, the solar powered shearer, was an Undersun Boyes...
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Post by dazbt on Jul 17, 2008 14:50:08 GMT -5
......forgot to say, the solar powered shearer, was an Undersun Boyes... Very good inbye. |
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inbye
Shotfirer.
Posts: 114
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Post by inbye on Jul 18, 2008 11:17:20 GMT -5
......forgot to say, the solar powered shearer, was an Undersun Boyes... Very good inbye. Cheers Daz.........it's over 35 years since I last heard the onsetter clanging those shaft signal plates.........like it was yesterday. Anyway..........you sayin' it wasn't like that at all pits?  |
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Post by John on Jul 18, 2008 11:25:31 GMT -5
Cheers Daz.........it's over 35 years since I last heard the onsetter clanging those shaft signal plates.........like it was yesterday. Anyway..........you sayin' it wasn't like that at all pits? I did a bit of onsetting at Boulby to let the Onsetter get an early ride. Doubt that would ever be allowed in any of the two UK collieries I worked at. We were a little more flexible in hard rock. |
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Post by dazbt on Jul 18, 2008 13:58:22 GMT -5
"Anyway..........you sayin' it wasn't like that at all pits? "
No it wasn't the same at all pits Inbye ;D ...................... some were even dafter, but you had to go overseas to witness the best ones, on one occasion I was launched to surface from a pit bottom on the signal from an onsetter's cap lamp to the banksman who, presumably whistled or shouted instructions to the winder when an electrical signaling problem had resulted in a 'temporary fix'. Waiting for a ride out in the old Ferrymoor pit bottom I was privileged to be offered a ride against an incoming pot of tea, I knew that because the banksman shouted down the shaft to inform the onsetter that the teapot was on-board, I suppose it saved on the cost of a telephone call.
Inbye, did you work from the Springwood end, if so, do you remember the one armed banksman and his telescope supporting six inch nail in the tree? (eeeeeeeeeeeee, them wer't days)
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Post by dazbt on Jul 18, 2008 15:17:56 GMT -5
"Anyway..........you sayin' it wasn't like that at all pits? " I forgot one other classic shaft riding experience, at a pit that shall remain nameless (but we will call it Moonidhi) in the State of Bihar in India, a fairly modern, deep pit in 1978 that had the very latest of shaft winding equipment. I worked from the pit bottom level but there were several working inset levels, I can't ever recall the cage gates being closed or that the cage stopped at any of the other levels, what did happen though, was in the style of a Manchester double decker bus, in that the cage slowed as it came in line with each of these insets and anyone wanting to get on or off jumped the gap as it slowly passed by, never been as glad to have worked at a pit's deepest level. 
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Post by John on Jul 18, 2008 15:52:23 GMT -5
Kind of scary Daz!!
I was called to the surface to locate a fault at the tipping level at Boulby. I got a ride up the No2 shaft, walked around to the Banksmans cabin to find out what was wrong, to be told the skip wasn't tipping it;s 20 tonne load. So off I set up the steel stairway to the tipping level 30 feet up the inside of the tower. I shouted instructions down to the banksman to signal the winder to lower the skip a few feet and bring it back up, just in case the skip wasn't mating with the air receiver. It was, I heard the solenoids operate, but skip doors were firmly jammed shut with mineral that had set like concrete. Nowt I could do, so called the banksman to get on phone to the winder and get him to call the shaftmen out. He had an outside phone in the drivers cabin.
About an hours time two shaftsmen arrived kitted out in their pitrags, safety harnesses and pull lifts over their shoulders. I followed them upstairs and gave them a hand to remove the side safety gates. Stood back and was horrified to see them step out on the girder towards the skip on the other side of the shaft. No harness hooked to anything and a three quarter of a mile black hole beneath them!
They hooked up the pullifts to the skip door and winched the door open, still balancing on the girder! Job done, they unhooked the pull lifts and strolled back like a circus balancing act!
Now me! I was called out from underground, magnetic switch in shaft side at tipping level failed. I had a new one with me, stopped at the banksmans cabin, borrowed a full safety harness. Got him to signal the winder to lock the shaft. 6+6+6 was rung, winder telephoned me, winding engine locked. Set off up the stairs, leaned out with the lanyard, wrapped it around the winding rope several times, clipped onto the belt, then gingerly climbed over the fence onto the top of the skip.
Changed the switch out, reversed all procedures, removed the lanyard from the rope and went back down the stairs. 6+6+6+6, shaft unlocked, job done!
And I still needed a clean pair of pants! ;D ;D ;D
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inbye
Shotfirer.
Posts: 114
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Post by inbye on Jul 19, 2008 3:38:43 GMT -5
"Anyway..........you sayin' it wasn't like that at all pits? " No it wasn't the same at all pits Inbye ;D ...................... some were even dafter, but you had to go overseas to witness the best ones, on one occasion I was launched to surface from a pit bottom on the signal from an onsetter's cap lamp to the banksman who, presumably whistled or shouted instructions to the winder when an electrical signaling problem had resulted in a 'temporary fix'. Waiting for a ride out in the old Ferrymoor pit bottom I was privileged to be offered a ride against an incoming pot of tea, I knew that because the banksman shouted down the shaft to inform the onsetter that the teapot was on-board, I suppose it saved on the cost of a telephone call. Inbye, did you work from the Springwood end, if so, do you remember the one armed banksman and his telescope supporting six inch nail in the tree? (eeeeeeeeeeeee, them wer't days) Yes Daz, I can see him now, Texolex helmet, faffing around collecting the alloy checks, his armless sleeve tucked in his jacket pocket, then closing the cage doors & rapping all with one arm. Thought he did pretty well... Funny thing was, he wore a helmet (in a solid concrete airlock) while the onsetter in pit bottom, wore a cloth cap Was there still a winder with one arm? Bloke with a southern accent. He had all kind of attachments for his "stump" & was showing them to us, one day. He finished with just a plain chrome tube, with like a walking stick rubber on the end, which he proceeded to "thump" the winding house wall with........I could have sworn that wall shook  |
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