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Post by Wheldale on Feb 4, 2011 3:06:40 GMT -5
Is there a list anywhere or does anyone know of any collieries that for whatever reason closed early on in their lives or was partially developed and never produced coal? For example Rothes colliery.
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Post by Sam from Kent on Feb 4, 2011 5:28:53 GMT -5
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Post by John on Feb 4, 2011 7:35:07 GMT -5
Is there a list anywhere or does anyone know of any collieries that for whatever reason closed early on in their lives or was partially developed and never produced coal? For example Rothes colliery. If there is, I haven't come across it. But, if you can compile one, I'll add it to my personal website, which is growing by the day. Just hope I will have enough space! |
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inbye
Shotfirer.
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Post by inbye on Feb 5, 2011 11:20:04 GMT -5
Good thread, this...
There was a large colliery in the Manchester area, possibly Mosley Common?, that closed due to the militancy of the workforce.
Not sure how long it had been operating at this point, can anyone fill in the details?
Regarding Rothes, I don't have the info on when this pit was sunk, but it doesn't appear to have been before the 1950's. It had the makings of being a Scottish superpit & in 1960 was producing 220,000 tons per year, with an underground workforce of 1,130. By 1962 Rothes had closed & I think the reason was the same as the Manchester pit.......industrial relations.
I remember reading an article detailing the development of Rothes, the surface plant, pit bottoms, manriding stations, underground coal storage etc. There were plenty of photo's of the underground works, some of which clearly showed the walls having a tiled finish. (might still have it, I'll have a look)
Never ceases to amaze that a pit that took some much money & effort to set up, could be abandoned almost at the drop of a hat.
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Post by Wheldale on Feb 5, 2011 12:43:05 GMT -5
I think Rothes lasted 5 years. Quite a waste of money, like Asfordby too. Calder drift, part of Denby Grange didnt last long either, nor (if you can count this) the re-development of Barnsley main, that pit cant have lasted 5 years. I bet there are quite afew when you start looking!
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Post by John on Feb 5, 2011 12:51:05 GMT -5
The Selby complex didn't last long either, they just dug a large hole and poured money down it like it was going out of fashion.. Didn't Rothes have complex geological problems?  Very steep seams?? |
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inbye
Shotfirer.
Posts: 114
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Post by inbye on Feb 5, 2011 13:31:55 GMT -5
The Selby complex didn't last long either, they just dug a large hole and poured money down it like it was going out of fashion.. Didn't Rothes have complex geological problems? Very steep seams?? Point taken, it might have been the Manchester one, I was thinking about. |
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inbye
Shotfirer.
Posts: 114
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Post by inbye on Feb 5, 2011 13:38:55 GMT -5
I think Rothes lasted 5 years. Quite a waste of money, like Asfordby too. Calder drift, part of Denby Grange didnt last long either, nor (if you can count this) the re-development of Barnsley main, that pit cant have lasted 5 years. I bet there are quite afew when you start looking! I didn't realise Calder drift was part of Denby Grange. Was that the one opposite the old Bulcliffe Wood pit? Agreed about Barnsley main. The firm of Cementation? must have cost millions alone, they seemed to be there for years. |
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Post by Wheldale on Feb 5, 2011 16:51:27 GMT -5
Yeah Calder Drift was opposite Bullcliffe Wood. I remember it being developed but dont know if it produced any coal. It was part of the West Side complex but I believe it was under the control of Denby Grange.
I do remember speaking to Mr Flack of Hay Royds who said he could have worked it better but the coal board wouldnt lease it too him.
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Post by John on Feb 6, 2011 9:06:59 GMT -5
This is what I found searching for Rothes.
"Within months, however, the Coal Board were in real trouble. The coal was in a shocking state and with whin intrusions, bad roof conditions aggravated by water, thinning of seams, and faults. To paraphrase Mr Parker, the board's Scottish chairman, "there were unending geological difficulties.""
"The Rothes Colliery was to be the show-piece of the great Fife coalfield but, unfortunately, it turned out to be probably the biggest disappointment/disaster in Fife's proud mining record, brought about by bad planning of the mining engineers of the time, who totally disregarded the comments from the experienced, local miners who knew the terrain very well indeed."
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Post by John on Feb 6, 2011 9:11:04 GMT -5
Here's a bit more, sounds like it was a real cockup by the NCB!!
"Mr R. W. Parker, Chairman of Scottish Division of the N.C.B., said yesterday that any future working at Rothes could only be assessed as a high mining risk. A dreadful series of setbacks and disappointments had bedevilled their efforts in the upper workings. Shaft sinking, for example, was delayed for more than a year because of flooding, and eventually abandoned well above the planned depth. Mining ran into faults on an unprecedented scale."
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inbye
Shotfirer.
Posts: 114
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Post by inbye on Feb 6, 2011 10:06:33 GMT -5
No arguing with that. It would be interesting to know what kind of info the boreholes had shown.
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Post by Wheldale on Feb 6, 2011 10:31:53 GMT -5
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Post by Wheldale on Feb 6, 2011 10:33:48 GMT -5
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Post by John on Feb 6, 2011 11:40:20 GMT -5
Quite an impressive colliery.
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Post by gadge on May 16, 2012 17:17:40 GMT -5
Kinsley drift on the old hemsworth pit site
Was meant to be a model of high producing royston drift .I worked on some of the best coal faces i,ve ever seen.but also some of the very worst.The water and cold conditions were dreadfull
opened(i think) in 78,closed in 86
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Post by dazbt on May 17, 2012 1:23:32 GMT -5
Kinsley drift on the old hemsworth pit site Was meant to be a model of high producing royston drift .I worked on some of the best coal faces i,ve ever seen.but also some of the very worst.The water and cold conditions were dreadfull opened(i think) in 78,closed in 86 Hya Gadge, you're certainly right, Kinsley didn't last very long and even Royston worked itself out in thirteen frantic years from1976 to 1989. I remember being sent to Kinsley's first face with the instructions to check the shearer installation out and ensure that it took its first inagural cut on the official day of the Drift opening without problem. Eventually got to the face after negotiating "the flood" and found the shearer wasn't quite as pristine as I'd been led to believe ............... they hadn't waited for the starting date, if I remember correctly the face had actually cut half of the first panel before the mine opened. Having a stock pile of 100,000 plus tons (estimate) cut coal up your cuff to start a new mine off must be every manager's dream. |
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Post by Wheldale on May 17, 2012 2:12:27 GMT -5
Hi Gadge,
Did you work with a Brian Hollingworth? He was a mechanical engineer at Kinsley. He taught me for 3 years at Selby college and I have to say he was the best lecturer I ever knew, I learned alot from him.
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Post by gadge on May 17, 2012 3:15:32 GMT -5
Hi Gadge, Did you work with a Brian Hollingworth? He was a mechanical engineer at Kinsley. He taught me for 3 years at Selby college and I have to say he was the best lecturer I ever knew, I learned alot from him. Yes i knew brian ,he was our shift chargie at the time , a first class fitter and all rounder Hope he,s doing well somewhere |
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Post by gadge on May 17, 2012 3:35:42 GMT -5
Kinsley drift on the old hemsworth pit site Was meant to be a model of high producing royston drift .I worked on some of the best coal faces i,ve ever seen.but also some of the very worst.The water and cold conditions were dreadfull opened(i think) in 78,closed in 86 Hya Gadge, you're certainly right, Kinsley didn't last very long and even Royston worked itself out in thirteen frantic years from1976 to 1989. I remember being sent to Kinsley's first face with the instructions to check the shearer installation out and ensure that it took its first inagural cut on the official day of the Drift opening without problem. Eventually got to the face after negotiating "the flood" and found the shearer wasn't quite as pristine as I'd been led to believe ............... they hadn't waited for the starting date, if I remember correctly the face had actually cut half of the first panel before the mine opened. Having a stock pile of 100,000 plus tons (estimate) cut coal up your cuff to start a new mine off must be every manager's dream. Hi dazbt The first couple of faces were a bit before i transferred there from newmillerdam pit in 1981 kinsley held something of a record as being the fastest pit into production taking 17 months from starting the drifts to coaling the first face but as for the water,you were never far from the hiss of a kettle pump or the whirr of a mono pump The cost of wellingtons alone must have been a small fortune |
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Post by Wheldale on May 17, 2012 6:39:37 GMT -5
Was the ridings drift a short life mine too? Wasn't it in the south kirkby pit yard?
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boaz
Trainee
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Post by boaz on May 21, 2012 8:00:25 GMT -5
Thorne Colliery was sunk, impressive headgear erected but never produced coal
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Post by John on May 21, 2012 9:23:58 GMT -5
From the Miners Advice site.
Thorne Colliery is situated at the edge of Thorne Moor, on the northern outskirts of Thorne town, and lies 16km north east of Doncaster.
The colliery was established in the early 1930's and worked until 1956 when production was halted and the workforce transferred to neighbouring collieries.
There had been a history of strained labour relations at the colliery, which was cited as adversely affecting productivity and profitability.
There was also the problem of the increasing rate of water ingress in No. 2 Shaft which, by the time production was halted, had become intolerable. At the same time, part of the shaft wall collapsed and revealed a very significant cavity which made the shaft virtually unusable.
Over a period of years, a temporary and then a permanent repair was made to the shaft, but this caused a reduction in the shaft's diameter.
Several times, British coal considered plans for reopening Thorne, with plans for a third shaft once being proposed as a means of bringing coal to the surface. None of these plans came to fruition however, as coal prices tumbled in the 80's and a more modest plan for restoring the colliery was adopted.
At this point I should add that plans for the multi-million tonne capacity shaft were well developed and for a time the shaft was in the process of extraction and work had commenced .
The massive potential for Thorne’s development was kept alive by Harold E Taylor the former NCB South Yorkshire Area Director, throughout the 1980s. His 1985/86 report is boasting of Thorne’s £2.9 million development programme that year. As coalfield strikes still raged round the Area his faith in the future for the coalfield was diminished and he was to bitterly pull the plug on the massive third shaft development which had begun and was progressing a pace.
In the early '80s the two existing shafts were equipped with new headgear and winding systems. The surface was cleared of the older buildings and the pit bottom insets and circuits were repaired. It was at this stage that, due to the falling demand for coal, BC decided not spend any further money on Thorne Colliery.
The mine has been contained on a care and maintenance basis since that time and RJB Mining acquired the colliery at privatisation.
Thorne Colliery's Futuristic Headgear
Thorne headgear, 1980's style
Thorne Banner
Thorne Banner
Click to see full image
The Thorne banner was lost for years after closure, then remarkably it turned up in mint condition still in its box, hidden for years under the stage at Thorne Miners Welfare. As far as we can tell this is the original banner. It is most uncharacteristic for the region, being without the ornate scrolls and fancy letter work and without heroes or dramatic scenes. It is more in common with some plain pragmatic Scottish and Kent Area banners. Perhaps given the influence of the Communist Party in those areas and a similar flavour at Thorne this is a 'no -nonsense' approach to banner design, such is entirely speculation however. What makes this banner stand out is its colossal size. The only way we could find to display it at Thorne rallies during 84 was to suspend it from the roof of a recreational building and let its width hang down the entire side of the building.
Communist Branch officials were rare in Yorkshire still rarer were Communist Local Council officials. Thorne had had both in the guise of Sam Cairns and Bill Carr, legends in the 30's miners movement and right through the 1950's and into the 60's.
Most famous of Thorne's Branch Officials was however Alwyn Machin who went on to briefly serve as Area president only to die suddenly in office. Alwyn had been originally a Derbyshire miner as had we believe his father before him. His Lad Frank after serving for a time on the Area Executive Committee won a scholarship to Ruskin and then went on to Oxford university quite an achievement for a pit lad in those days. Frank was to write a History Of The Yorkshire Miners, particularly dealing with the Unions early years and struggles for justice.
Frank Machin - History of the Yorkshire Miner
Click to see full image
The Present
The Present Position
The present position of Thorne Colliery remains the same as it has since the restoration work of the 80's
Reserves and Resources
The High Hazel seam at a maximum depth of 900m has been worked extensively within a 3 km radius of the shaft. Access has been made into the Barnsley seam, 60m below.
The High Hazel seam has an estimated 38 Mt of resources and the Barnsley seam an estimated 37 Mt
Thorne High Hazel Workings and Reserves
Click to see full image ( 107K )
This illustration, taken from the International Mining Consultants Ltd report for the DTI clearly show massive reserves, but this of itself is an underestimation. It appears the company was only asked to disclose reserves accessible from existing colliery limits. The Thorne reserve shows the colliery boundaries, however the actual geological reserves go on without limit to the coast. The Hatfield take has been limited at its boundaries to the former Askern Colliery reserve and although these have not been proved it is clear they have the potential of massively extending the range and life of Hatfield beyond already sizeable known reserves. Taken together, Hatfield and Thorne in many ways complimentary, could prove a long life complex far into the future. It is far from idle speculation to predict such a complex as the last mines in Britain.
Thorne Barnsley Workings and Reserves
Click to see full image ( 76K )
Into the Future...
Future Prospects.
RJB Mining has retained Thorne on the basis that it could be developed into an operating mine when market conditions and economics allow.
The company believes that a saleable output of 1.2 Mt/a can be profitably achieved.
No estimates have been provided by RJB Mining for reopening the mine.
Update - April 2002
UK Coal, (previously known as RJB Mining) announced plans to seal the shafts at Thorne. This led to huge outcry among people who believed Thorne Colliery should be reopened, or at least maintained.
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boaz
Trainee
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Post by boaz on May 21, 2012 10:15:05 GMT -5
Obviously I'm too young to remember it first time round  |
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Post by John on May 21, 2012 10:38:16 GMT -5
Obviously I'm too young to remember it first time round
But from what I'm reading, looks like Hatfield will be entering the take and recovering the lease. The two pits are shown to be linked in the High Hazels.
The NCB did spend a lot, or should I say threw a lot down the hole before pulling the plug. |
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Post by Wheldale on May 21, 2012 16:32:18 GMT -5
I doubt Hatfield will move into the Thorne take. Possibley too far away. I think there were linked for ventilation. Plus I believe Hatfield needs a new shaft as its current shaft capacity is limiting output. Its a shame Thorne never got back working.
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Very steep seams??
