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Post by dazbt on May 1, 2009 13:24:27 GMT -5
Here's a pic of a miner enjoying a spot of leisure, someone here might well recognise this guy .............. or at least know the location, I think.  |
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Post by John on May 1, 2009 16:26:07 GMT -5
Looks like a surface shot to me Daz ;D No, not enough picture to say where it's taken, and no don't recognise the feller.
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Post by dazbt on May 1, 2009 18:18:51 GMT -5
Looks like a surface shot to me Daz ;D No, not enough picture to say where it's taken, and no don't recognise the feller. Does this shot help 'you' any more ........... think Angus Place, Wolgan, 'Big Ian', fitter ?  |
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Post by John on May 1, 2009 19:12:14 GMT -5
No don't recall any "big Ian" on the fitting staff Daz, I even got my old cap lamp allocation list out and nothing on there. I was at Angus Place for about seven years, left over the Christmas Holiday of 1988.
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Post by dazbt on May 1, 2009 19:20:00 GMT -5
Looks like a surface shot to me Daz ;D No, not enough picture to say where it's taken, and no don't recognise the feller. Does this shot help 'you' any more ........... think Angus Place, Wolgan, 'Big Ian', fitter ? the photo was sent to me by the Anderson rep. that installed the original AM500 shearer at Angus Place. As I expected he confirmed that the machine was an AM 500. |
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Post by John on May 1, 2009 20:37:31 GMT -5
That was the machine I worked on many times, installed on LW9 face, I spent a few shifts driving that machine to pass the time when I had nothing to do in my own job, trained a few miners how to use it too!
It went to cut LW10, 11, 12, 13 don't know how many after that though.
The only "big" fitter I recall was Big Al Mcphail, he was with me as the longwall fitter on swingshift, but that's not him in the photo.
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Post by John on May 2, 2009 6:57:35 GMT -5
The only people I came into contact with from Anderson's was Alex Downey and the chief electrical engineer when he came to give us the inside scoop of the AM500, as we were only with him one day, I don't recall his name, but there was one nightshift I could have gladly have throttled the bastard! He ridiculed me on that one day when I asked him "what if" Well "what if" happened! And I was the one who together with one of my electricians had to strip the whole control chamber out to get to the power packs installed right at the back, errr they won't fail he said!
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Post by dazbt on May 2, 2009 7:20:47 GMT -5
The only people I came into contact with from Anderson's was Alex Downey and the chief electrical engineer when he came to give us the inside scoop of the AM500, as we were only with him one day, I don't recall his name, but there was one nightshift I could have gladly have throttled the bastard! He ridiculed me on that one day when I asked him "what if" Well "what if" happened! And I was the one who together with one of my electricians had to strip the whole control chamber out to get to the power packs installed right at the back, errr they won't fail he said! that's the trouble with policemen, politicians, gypsies and electricians ....... you just can't believe a word they say. |
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Post by John on May 2, 2009 13:37:20 GMT -5
Design engineer Daz, and we know they haven't a clue.
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Post by linbylad on May 7, 2009 10:25:02 GMT -5
The Chief Electrical Engineer for Anderson in 1988 would have been Bill Gordon. He was a short man with a ginger beard aged about 37 at that time. Does that sound like the man who lied to you John? Bill was (is?) a gentleman and a scholar and I can't imanage him rediculing anybody. You later mentioned a design engineer. Do you mean it was not the Chief Electrical Engineer you were refering to earlier in your posts?
Linby Lad
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Post by John on May 7, 2009 11:11:13 GMT -5
I don't recall his name, I don't think he was a chief, just the NSW Anderson Elec/electronics engineer mate.
I worked with Alex Downey many times as I was night shift electrician then leading hand at Angus Place for a few years, so when Alex come in, it was usually on nights when we did maintenance. Now that feller was a gentleman and damned good at his job as Daz will tell you.
I recall an electrician from Andersons flew out to do some mods to the shearer when we lost the face and it also coincided with the UK big strike, bit of a busmans holiday for him I think!
The young bloke who designed the "Dowvalve" units on the dowty chock shields gave us the run through on them, he was an Australian, brilliant electronics engineer too!
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Post by linbylad on May 7, 2009 21:56:39 GMT -5
Linbylad back again. I didn't think it would be Bill Gordon who you met, John, he didn't like leaving Scotland if he could avoid it. He would be pleased to know I thought he was 37 in 1988 though, he would be about 47 then. The old brain is clogging up a bit now.
I agree with your comments about Alex Downey, top bloke. He came to work for Anderson Mavor in the USA between 1981-1985 or so. I was a service engineer at the time. I had served my time as an apprentice electrician and had to learn a lot about the mechanics of the equipment and Alex was a big help. We all missed him when he went back to Scotland. One good thing though, his family's household goods were sold off via a silent auction and I bought quite a bit. His lawn mower lasted me for years.
I was surprised when he went to live in Oz as I thought they went back to Scotland because they missed it. Ah well, Oz's gain, USA's loss. I wonder if Dazbt knows what has become of him.
I also agree with your opinion about Anderson electronics. I was heavily involved with the Electra 550 shearer when the prototype was installed at the Shoemaker Mine in Pennsylvania. It was problems with the electronics that led to it being abandoned in the USA.
I don't want to knock the company that provided me with a great job and a good living for many years so I will leave it at that.
Linby lad.
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Post by John on May 8, 2009 20:34:01 GMT -5
Linbylad back again. I didn't think it would be Bill Gordon who you met, John, he didn't like leaving Scotland if he could avoid it. He would be pleased to know I thought he was 37 in 1988 though, he would be about 47 then. The old brain is clogging up a bit now. I agree with your comments about Alex Downey, top bloke. He came to work for Anderson Mavor in the USA between 1981-1985 or so. I was a service engineer at the time. I had served my time as an apprentice electrician and had to learn a lot about the mechanics of the equipment and Alex was a big help. We all missed him when he went back to Scotland. One good thing though, his family's household goods were sold off via a silent auction and I bought quite a bit. His lawn mower lasted me for years. I was surprised when he went to live in Oz as I thought they went back to Scotland because they missed it. Ah well, Oz's gain, USA's loss. I wonder if Dazbt knows what has become of him. I also agree with your opinion about Anderson electronics. I was heavily involved with the Electra 550 shearer when the prototype was installed at the Shoemaker Mine in Pennsylvania. It was problems with the electronics that led to it being abandoned in the USA. I don't want to knock the company that provided me with a great job and a good living for many years so I will leave it at that. Linby lad. Are you sure about those dates?? I was at Angus Place from about 1981 and left Xmas of 1988. Alex was a regular visitor to check up on the old AM400 shearer and I think the aproximate date of delivery of the AM500 shearer was around 1984, I can check that date against the photos I took of the shearer on the surface. It went into LW8. Alex was with us for a couple of weeks during the commissioning of the machine, and I accompanied him as shift leading hand electrician when there was work to do on it. I understood Alex was involved with the design of the AM500 we were using too. Wished Daz would show up, he knew Alex and his background better than myself. |
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Post by dazbt on May 9, 2009 17:16:02 GMT -5
Well here I am, although as daft as it is I can’t confirm the dates that Mr Downie worked in the US nor his time at AB Rea’s in Australia. What I can say about him is in agreement with you both is that he was a first class engineer and a thoroughly likeable guy to boot. Alex worked for a good number of years as ‘second in command’ in Anderson Strathclyde’s Internationally famous and revered ’X Department’, the most holy of engineering Inner Sanctums at their Motherwell factory. X Department was the top secret trialling and testing area where a great deal of coalface machine cutting technology was developed and as such Alex was in part responsible for the ongoing development and testing of the AM 500 shearer concept and many of its variations, developments and applications that resulted in the production of a series of coal shearers that moved the World’s coalming perception of Longwall coal cutting machinery capabilities forward at an unprecedented rate, the AM 500 series of shearer was without doubt the World leader for decades, capable of inputting high horsepower into a range of coal seam applications from relatively thin seam thicknesses through to massive single pass seam section extraction not previously conceivable.
BUT ………………………….. I have to make the point yet again John, your AM400 never existed, there wasn’t one, there was an AM420 but never ever an AM400, the first machine used at Angus Place was categorically an AM500 ……………. it did have a 300KV (400HP) electric motor but the machine in its entirety was an AM500 by definition, registration, technical description, title and moral obligation. The numbers following all of the AB (Anderson Boyes), AM (Anderson Mavor), AS (Anderson Strathclyde) were designated as a nominal machine motor height measurement rather than a motor horsepower rating. Just to complicate things Anderson produced an AB16” 22” Servo shearer, an AM16” 17” (mechanical haulage) 270HP DERDS, an AB16” SET, an AB DECMT, an AB70HP Trepanner and an AB120HP Heavy Duty Trepanner as well as a 270HP Trepanner.
Your Angus Place AM500 400HP electric motor (300KV), was updated to an AM500 500HP electric motor ……………. but both machines were AM500 with different motor ratings, the term AM400 is inaccurate but may well have been a local description.
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Post by John on May 9, 2009 17:40:57 GMT -5
I bow to your superior knowledge Daz, as you worked for AS, they did look remarkably similar, like you say, must have been a local number, not sure if I ever kept the schematics for it, but recall they were all marked AM400. The electrics were bare basics too, much like the old AB 16/125's and 200's
While the electrics on the newer AM500, had masses of electronics in the switch chamber and the haulage swashplate drive? was controlled from the two amplifiers in the switch chamber, yeh the ones with the dreaded power packs right at the back "that will never fail".
Either way, both shearers were great pieces if engineering and made me a pile in bonus payments!
Have you seen the BJD Ace shearers at all??? I'm going to be putting the Annual Report for the South Yorkshire area of BC for 1988/89 on the web site in a week or two. Maybe some of the pits mentioned will bring a tear to an old fitters eyes!
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Post by dazbt on May 9, 2009 18:28:49 GMT -5
The other aspect of Power Supply Units I would like to approach with some trepidation, I’ll start with my thoughts of Bill Gordon, I had direct dealings with Bill over a period of many years and knew him as magnificent human being, a great guy, a clever guy and certainly a valid and worthy Chief Electrical Engineer of Anderson Strathclyde, I was a bit surprised at Bill’s estimated age because I genuinely believed that Bill was born 47 year old, (I well remember Bill being married at the age of 92, or thereabouts). He was a gentleman, but he also had a serious wit about him, he certainly didn’t suffer fools, but at the same time he always had the time and ability to explain the most complicated of electrical ‘magical’ systems to dull thinking mechanical engineers in terminology that even I could understand, a great guy but without doubt a man of cutting wit and intellectual sarcasm sometimes misinterpreted as something more vicious than he would ever have intended.
Right (no bowing), ……………… re the power supply and its integrity, reliability and accessibility within the AM500, you were certainly right to question it John, believe this or not I duplicated your exact experience ……….. I asked the same question and was given the same answer ……………. the power supply will never fail and that is why it is positioned where it is. The phrase ‘Lambda Power Supply failure’ became so frequent that during my stint as field development manager for Anderson Strathclyde at the mention of the word ‘LAMBDA’ in a telephone conversation in my home, it resulted in an automatic, silent and immediate evacuation of my wife and children in order to protect them from the guaranteed ensuing verbal onslaught.
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Post by dazbt on May 9, 2009 18:42:36 GMT -5
"Have you seen the BJD Ace shearers at all??? I'm going to be putting the Annual Report for the South Yorkshire area of BC for 1988/89 on the web site in a week or two. Maybe some of the pits mentioned will bring a tear to an old fitters eyes!"
The BJD Ace was an integral part of my upbringing (if I was ever 'Upbrought' that is), reared at NCB Shafton Central Workshops as an apprentice I had a 'dib' at most of the machinery floating abut the NCB during the magnificent 1960s and gained the chance to work on many of them in their underground applications from 1966 onwards, not that I can remember a great deal, I'm waiting for Industrial Loss of Memory being accepted as as a compensatiable disease ........... I'll be worth a fortune.
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Post by John on May 9, 2009 19:05:03 GMT -5
Gee I had to have a fitter job my memory on the make of them, yep Lamda, and do you know they really are a reliable power supply when installed in air conditioned radio repeater vaults! BUT, in the hostile environment of the shearer control chamber, they are piece of crap known for failure.
And talking of electronic component failures, when I had one of several thousand remote diode failures in my many years of being an underground electrician, my response to the friggin nosy Deputies, err sorry Bill, when they asked what caused them to fail was the usual F*** knows. Why should I part my hard learned knowledge on to them? ;D
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Post by johnh on May 10, 2009 4:44:41 GMT -5
Just been reading the great stories, thought i could add a little to it, I can advise that i Know and had the pleasure of working with and for Alex Downie, I started my career with AB Rea in 1988 which later become Anderson Rea, Long airdox, DBT and now Bucyrus, and Alex was the Head Engineer and had been at the Australian arm for some time prior to my employment,
Alex was also heavily involved with the original Newstan installation in 1982-83 this i know for sure as some where i have a photo of him and My dad (Mick Herberts he worked for Dowty Meco) standing with Alex during the long surface mini build, if i can find the photo i will try and post it
I will say this if Alex could not fix it then us mere mortals had no hope,
Alex retired to the quiet state of Tasmania just prior to DBT taking over Long airdox in about 2000, one of the guys at Bucyrus still has some contact with him although rarely his name is Grenville Wright, i will speak to Grenville and see if i can find out more info on Alex.
The Electrical Engineer who may ave visited the AM500 at Angus Place could have been Barry Mackay (also Retired) and the other service engineers around the time may have been Ray Chadwick, Alan Beal, i know for certain Grenville Visited Angus place but that would have been late 80s to very early 90s . Alan Beal was also one of the Anderson Service Engineers who installed the Newstan machine.
I have also heard about the lambda power supply's and all the good stories from the likes of Parker Cullen and Mick young who Daz would most likely know, and the Midas gear and roof following probes for shearer steering all great stuff but even better now there only memories according to the guys who worked with it.
My main underground exposure to the last AM500 in action was an 8 day motor change at Ellallong, shearer at tailgate , no tailgate access, no close cut through at the maingate and no fully built spare motor as by that time 2003 they were all but extinct and the components inside antiques of which we had very few spares, so 8 days of hell, And then once repaired and running the shearer went half a shear and the Main Pump failed so another 3 days down, was i glad to see the Electra 1000 take its place there only to be lost in the fire there, know its top coal caving and a new generation Electra 2000 machine.
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Post by John on May 10, 2009 6:53:10 GMT -5
When I was an apprentice, we were on the old Mech/Elec scheme at Clifton, one of the last bastions of that scheme after Wollaton, Radford and Bestwood had closed.
The nighshift chargehand, I can't call him an electrician as he was very good at that side of the job, was Ken Goodhall, great man to work for, he could make a shearer "talk". He was deffo in Alex's class of craftsmen when it came to machinery. Sadly I was told Ken passed on quite a few years back, one of the old breed of tradesmen.
Nice to hear Alex is doing fine and enjoying retirement these days. Be nice if he was on the internet and found our group here.
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Post by dazbt on May 10, 2009 13:28:18 GMT -5
Hya Johnh, great post, thanks for all that info, it is good to hear that Alex managed to seek and find 'solace' in Tasmania, a place that I would love to visit personally for a myriad of reasons ....... the mention of your dad, Mick Herberts, strikes allsorts of bells, a name that resounds through quite a few decades of International Coalmining ............ but God forgive me, I can't for the life of me remember him, I feel sure that I have met him, probably worked alongside him but in the sloppiness of accelerated senility I can't recall other than his name.
Parker Cullen and Mick Young I recall, both excellent examples of Anderson representitives, hard working, clever lads, smashing blokes to boot, the pair of em.
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Post by linbylad on May 11, 2009 22:07:11 GMT -5
L:inby Lad back again. You are all quite right about the dates Alex worked in The States, He did leave a little earlier. I was confused (OMG what's happening to me?) with another engineer who came over to promote the new Dreadnought AFC that Anderson were trying to introduce (did you know Anderson made an AFC John?). He was a Yorkie (Tony K. Daz) and another top bloke. It was his lawnmower I pushed for miles.
I'm glad people have named names because it has reminded me of some of the great guys I've had the pleasure to work (and play) with. I don't normally use a person's full name on here because I don't know how they would feel about it. When we were commisioning the EL1000 in the Enlow Fork mine in 1991, the moment Parker would poke is head around the door of the office we had been given, that cheeky grin of his would lift me up no end. I never saw him in a bad mood. I believe I was called "Grumpy" by the mine fitters. It was probably something to do wih my height.
The first 10 years I worked for Anderson-Mavor (USA) Ltd. was the best years of my working life. It all fell apart when our "friend" Maggy decided to destroy the UK mining industry and the resulting stress it placed on the Anderson Company and it's people was dire. Yes, I know guys, it was a lot worse for the people who worked for the NCB, my empathy and admiration are with you. I was a member of the NUM for almost 20 years. At least you got the "golden (?) handshake", all I got when I was laid off after more than 20 years of service with Anderson and L/A was 12 weeks pay, 3 weeks holiday money and 2 weeks pay in loo (sp?) of notice. It was "come into the office ,Ron", and then "your'e fininished and if you don't sign this release form you won't get any severance pay" I was then "escorted" out to the carp park. It was all over in 15 minutes.
I would love to know how some of the guys I worked with are doing.
See ya, me duck.
Linby Lad.
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Post by johnh on May 12, 2009 4:28:11 GMT -5
Had to laugh about your comments on Parker as that is him still the same, no matter how serious things get he still manages to make you laugh,
Even the customer ends up with a smile even after they have given us a severe Bollocking for a stuff up we have managed to cause,
Yes i did know about the Anderson AFC although never saw it up close, however i did have the unfortunate pleasure of playing with the KB11 Beaver which was Anderson s attempt at the continuous miner market although thankfully i never worked on it underground only in our workshop, it was a short lived venture with the only units in Australia left Underground in closed mines never to see daylight again.
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Post by John on May 12, 2009 6:03:26 GMT -5
Didn't Anderson own Meco?? If so they made AFC's for donkey's years, they also owned M&CS, so made their own isolators that were installed in the shearers plus the M&CS range of gate end boxes and switchgear.
I'm surprised their range of continuous miners never came to anything, they had been making roadheaders for years, so it's really only a step up the ladder.
Yep, that's what a lot of folks don't realize, Maggie killed off a lot of highly profitable export industries too when she went after the coal industry, I believe the ratio was nearly 5-1 of workers in support industries to mineworkers, a lot of people to throw out of work for a political objective. Pity the British electorate wasn't told that one!!
I used to work for two companies that used to rely on the old NCB for at least 70% of their profit from NCB business.
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