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Post by John on May 31, 2017 15:37:17 GMT -5
Does anyone know when this scheme was first introduced and how many areas adopted it??
I know Bestwood, Wollaton and Clifton were on it when I first started, I believe Clifton may have been the last pit on it in the No6 Area East Midlands Div.
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Post by eleceng on Jun 3, 2017 6:08:13 GMT -5
John, if my memory serves me right, the pits in No. 6 Area were, Babbington, Calverton, Gedling, Linby & Hucknall, as well as the 3 you mention. I think the scheme ended around 1964/65. Cotgrave was split into two separate departments certainly in 1964 when I moved from Bestwood as a mech/elec. I think it may have been in the scheme in the earlier days. In those early days, apprentices, like me were made Class 2 mechanics as well as doing electrical studies at college. Electrician Class 2 were awarded by passing exams in the subject. Came in handy sometimes helping the fitters. Can't think of any other Areas that were in the scheme.
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Post by John on Jun 3, 2017 8:40:25 GMT -5
Clifton was on it right up to closure Mick, 1968, we as apprentice elecs "mutinied" over having to work under it, Lol Adcock the Elec Eng in Charge soon put us in our place, and he spoke in a quiet calm voice, we walked out of his office with our tails between our legs..LOL.
I'm interested in when it started, my guess would be mid 50's.
I did find some years back, the NCB tried to get it in all areas, Yorkshire turned it down flat, and threatened disputes if they tried to force it on them.
All the "green ticket" elecs I knew at Clifton were class one elec, class two fitting. The Night shift Chargehand Elec, Ken Goodhall was originally from Mapperly Colliery, Derbyshire. He trained as a fitter, he had a "green ticket" and was class one elec/two fitter, they wanted him to apply as a shift elec, but turned it down due to the fact he'd be taking a pay cut. He could make a shearer sing!! One of the best "fitters" I've ever seen.
We didn't have that many fitters at Clifton, most were on days in the surface workshop, one on each shift underground to cover outbye work. Sadly, it wasn't until the last year of the pit that the apprentice fitters got training experience on the faces. They had to make waves to get it too. 1967, saw them accompany the face electricians for on the job training.
The only jobs the face electricians didn't do was the face supports and changing hoses, that was done with Reg 11 fitters, we had three on each shift, but the pumps came under our staff.
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Post by John on Jun 3, 2017 11:37:17 GMT -5
Thinking a little more on this subject, the M&Q Act of 1954, took effect in 1956, so any appointments would have to have been made prior to 1956??? So the Mech/Elec appointments would have been made under the old "green ticket" days, after 1956, any appointments would have to be made under the old MQB, or with a Mech ticket of class 2 or higher???
So that would date the Mech/Elec scheme pre 1956, or even earlier???
Does that make any sense??
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Post by eleceng on Jun 19, 2017 9:44:39 GMT -5
My apprenticeship was completed in 1961. I had completed Class 2 college exams, which I passed & was duly authorised as Class 2 elec. & if memory is correct authorised as Reg. 11 mechanic. Most of the older mech/els. were authorised as elecs. & mechanics as you said under "Green Card" system. They were very responsible for making sure we knew what we were doing.
In 1963, an apprentice mechanic was assigned to me for training. The fitters U/G at Bestwood at the time only looked after roof supports & water supplies. Fitters on surface were different as they looked after all surface mechanical installations. In my early apprenticeship I spent some time with them. Also with Blacksmiths & Joiners. This was before I was 18 & going U/G permanently. The apprentice fitter turned out to be one of the best apprentices' I had. We stayed pals for many years.
Brings back many happy memories!!
I think the guys' who came from Clifton were authorised as electricians due to the split at Cotgrave. So the scheme I think was finished around 1968. When Bestwood closed in 1967, most of my old mates transferred to Gedling & Calverton & authorised as electricians.
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Post by John on Jun 19, 2017 14:39:17 GMT -5
My apprenticeship was completed in 1961. I had completed Class 2 college exams, which I passed & was duly authorised as Class 2 elec. & if memory is correct authorised as Reg. 11 mechanic. Most of the older mech/els. were authorised as elecs. & mechanics as you said under "Green Card" system. They were very responsible for making sure we knew what we were doing. In 1963, an apprentice mechanic was assigned to me for training. The fitters U/G at Bestwood at the time only looked after roof supports & water supplies. Fitters on surface were different as they looked after all surface mechanical installations. In my early apprenticeship I spent some time with them. Also with Blacksmiths & Joiners. This was before I was 18 & going U/G permanently. The apprentice fitter turned out to be one of the best apprentices' I had. We stayed pals for many years. Brings back many happy memories!! I think the guys' who came from Clifton were authorised as electricians due to the split at Cotgrave. So the scheme I think was finished around 1968. When Bestwood closed in 1967, most of my old mates transferred to Gedling & Calverton & authorised as electricians. That's starting to build a picture up Mick, so it looks like only a few pits in the No6 Area were under the scheme. Clifton had reg 11 lads as chock fitters, we only had one fitter U/G on each shift, and that was outbye to cover the belts, bunkers and pumps. Same as Bestwood on surface, fitters carried out all mechanical on the surface.
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Post by smshogun on Jun 23, 2017 21:37:34 GMT -5
Moorgreen used a lot of REG 11's and they were usually assigned specific jobs, usually they looked after belts, slot track creepers, haulage ropes, and a number worked on the surface as blaggies, blaggies were usually men who would be classed as multi skilled and could turn out to any job to help any fitter or electricial.
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Post by John on Jun 24, 2017 9:21:37 GMT -5
Moorgreen used a lot of REG 11's and they were usually assigned specific jobs, usually they looked after belts, slot track creepers, haulage ropes, and a number worked on the surface as blaggies, blaggies were usually men who would be classed as multi skilled and could turn out to any job to help any fitter or electricial. Most of the electrical apprentices at Clifton were appointed under Reg 11 for changing lamps U/G and surface without supervision, but only on 110volt circuits. I was appointed after I turned 18. It also covered me to work on equipment above 110volts but under supervision of an authorized craftsman.
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Post by smshogun on Jun 28, 2017 13:25:46 GMT -5
Had time to look at the regulations again John.
It appears that under M&Q anyone undertaking an approved mining apprenticeship after 1956 which was a start date for an approved apprenticeship automatically became enrolled as a Reg 11 as they were working under supervision and didn't take on any jobs requiring specialised or technical knowledge and were appointed as "under the appointment of the Managers Scheme For The Mine" when they signed indentures to start their apprenticeship, and a condition of their apprenticeship was they had to work under supervision for the duration of their apprenticeship, and I think we all know that didn't generally happen.
However, any mechanical or electrical apprentice who successfully completed year 2 of college automatically attained their City & Guilds in their respective field, but this applied if you went forwards to year 3 of your apprenticeship.
However, after year 1 of your apprenticeship you could be nominated for the "enhanced qualifications" which entailed going for the T1 or Tech bridging course and after 6 months on this course you automatically attained your C&G which was sent to you by post.
So you could get your C&G after 2 years for a normal apprentice, or after about 18 months of you were switched to the T1 course.
If you were switched to the T1 course you were going for enhanced qualifications they merged them together so while technically you were doing your enhanced qualifications you were also doing your apprenticeship at an enhanced rate, and while an apprentice trained individual was taken onto the books after 4 years and completion of their apprenticeship; anyone on the T1 course was signed on after only 3 years as a time served apprentice as they could, and had to work in other areas a normal apprentice couldn't.
Latterly you could complete an apprenticeship and do another separate module (Eleceng - Pete Hunter, Steve Fisher, Pete Barber) and attain your enhanced qualifications, this was done allegedly to replace the potential management material which the industry was losing.
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Post by smshogun on Jun 28, 2017 13:47:06 GMT -5
John
As an aside to this, Moorgreen moved to Reg 11 for:
Oilers and greasers - their only role was to check gearboxes on equipment for levels and top them up, for items such as slot track creepers they were allowed to grease moving parts such as chains.
Ropemen/splicers - ropemen did all the splicing and maintained a proportion of the equipment such as haulage drive wheels and tensioners.
Pipe Fitters - their role was solely to erect, extend, and splice in new pipelines for water and firefighting lines U/G and to do repairs as and when required on leaking pipes.
Chock Fitters - their role was to maintain chocks, they were allowed to maintain chock systems by replacing burst hoses, checking the soluble water/oil content, topping up water or soluble oil if required, checking pressures, and isolating a defective chock leg and blanking it off. They were not allowed to work on chock pumps or anything else on the high pressure side, only what they were appointed to do.
Belt Fitters - they did all the belt repairs such as changing conveyor belting, repairing belting as temporary measures prior to replacement, tensioning belts, and installing new belt structure. They couldn't touch the belt drives or its rollers or vulcanise belting unless under the supervision of a fitter.
Chain Stores - they were allowed to take all the periodically tested lifting equipment requiring testing such as pull lifts and chains and clean them, they were allowed to do the basic initial testing (load test) and divide them into piles of working or not working and give all the non working equipment to a fitter for diagnosis or repair, they couldn't diagnose or repair them as only a fitter could do that and complete the final testing, they were allowed to punch new date and test tags for them and paint tested equipment in that years colour for identification and re issue them.
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