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Post by tygwyn on Nov 26, 2015 13:32:28 GMT -5
Bell Stones or Pan`s as we called them in the Smallmines of South Wales,
Were they a problem in other coalfields?
Strangely i cannot find a picture of one of these anywhere on the internet,in-fact any info on bell stones is totally different to the ones found in the roof underground,that drop out without warning if not supported.
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Post by John on Nov 26, 2015 13:52:17 GMT -5
Bell Stones or Pan`s as we called them in the Smallmines of South Wales, Were they a problem in other coalfields? Strangely i cannot find a picture of one of these anywhere on the internet,in-fact any info on bell stones is totally different to the ones found in the roof underground,that drop out without warning if not supported. |
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Post by tygwyn on Nov 26, 2015 14:23:05 GMT -5
Maybe my wording did`nt explain how they could be a problem,
Really only them that worked on hand got faces would have found them to be a problem,and seen them most likely,
Try and imagine your working a 2ft 4in seam on bore and fire,some seams as we know come away from the roof when fired,others leave a layer of coal behind,the Glyngwylim seam did this,and unless you scraped the layer of coal down,around an inch,you would not see these pan`s,and all you would see is a thin layer of coal 1/4 to 1/2 inch marking a circle in the roof,that is your pan,without support it could drop out any time,as the top of the pan was domed and smooth.
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Post by dazbt on Nov 26, 2015 15:47:09 GMT -5
Maybe my wording did`nt explain how they could be a problem, Really only them that worked on hand got faces would have found them to be a problem,and seen them most likely, Try and imagine your working a 2ft 4in seam on bore and fire,some seams as we know come away from the roof when fired,others leave a layer of coal behind,the Glyngwylim seam did this,and unless you scraped the layer of coal down,around an inch,you would not see these pan`s,and all you would see is a thin layer of coal 1/4 to 1/2 inch marking a circle in the roof,that is your pan,without support it could drop out any time,as the top of the pan was domed and smooth. Sound similar to what we called "pot holes" Jim, circular, flat based to roof level and tapering upwards conically, slip out without warning always had a thin coal shell that was inevitably slickensided. They were a major problem on prop and bar longwalls but could also cause problems on later powered support faces when they slipped out into the machine track, extremely hard bell shaped pieces of rock, does that sound about right? |
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Post by tygwyn on Nov 26, 2015 15:57:45 GMT -5
Spot on Daz,
Damn heavy to move as well,a puncher would just slide off them,sometimes you could sledge off the sides,but usually just moel/tumble out of way,sometimes taking 2 of you to do,or a splasher for a big one,
Biggest one i saw in that Colliery,not in my face thank God,was near on 4ft across,the average there was around 2ft.
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Post by dazbt on Nov 26, 2015 16:31:28 GMT -5
Here you go Jim; en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Dictionary_of_Mining,_Mineral,_and_Related_Terms/P/5 pot a. A vessel for holding molten metal. b. An electrolytic reduction cell used to make such metals as aluminum from fused electrolyte. c. Mud-filled stump of Sigillaria in an upright position in the roof of certain coal seams. The stump became hollow by decay of the central pithy part, the hollow being filled by mud. This stump is now a separate mass of shale and is liable for collaspse without warning. See also: caldron bottom; pot bottom. d. A colloquial syn. of seismic detector. e. See: abyss; line oiler. fits in nicely with the thread on the Welsh site, (apart from the spelling of course) |
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Post by dazbt on Nov 27, 2015 4:41:54 GMT -5
a little bit more from the previously mentioned webpages;
caldron bottom
a. Mud-filled prostrate trunk of sigillaria in the roof of certain coal seams. The trunk is a separate mass of rock, with a film of coal around it. It is liable to collapse without any warning sound. Also called horseback. Syn: caldron; kettle bottom. See also: pot.
b. Eng. A cone-shaped mass with slippery surfaces found in the roof of some seams. It sometimes comprises a ring of coal around a core of material differing slightly from the ordinary roof. CF: pot bottom. Also called pothole.
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Post by tygwyn on Nov 27, 2015 7:01:23 GMT -5
Thank`s again Daz,
Have you come across any photo`s of these,i`ve looked but to no avail,in the wrong places most likely.
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Post by dazbt on Nov 27, 2015 12:28:17 GMT -5
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Post by John on Nov 27, 2015 13:33:01 GMT -5
Bad link, just code that crashed Firefox for me.
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Post by dazbt on Nov 27, 2015 13:45:11 GMT -5
Bad link, just code that crashed Firefox for me. works OK for me as a direct clicked link from the message here. Here's a copy of the front page; [R I 18785 PLEASE DO NOT REMOVE FRQII1 LIBRARY s: Bureau of Mines Report of Investigations/1983 Kettlebottoms: Thei r Relation to Mine Roof and Support By Frank E. Chase and Gary P. Sames UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR RE C EIVED I!I U REAU OF M INES SEP 2 71983 may be able to find it by title and authors, i.e. Kettlebottoms: Their Relation to Mine Roof and Support By Frank E.Chase and Gary P.Sames can anyone else open it? |
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Post by John on Nov 27, 2015 14:06:29 GMT -5
Bad link, just code that crashed Firefox for me. works OK for me as a direct clicked link from the message here. Here's a copy of the front page; [R I 18785 PLEASE DO NOT REMOVE FRQII1 LIBRARY s: Bureau of Mines Report of Investigations/1983 Kettlebottoms: Thei r Relation to Mine Roof and Support By Frank E. Chase and Gary P. Sames UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR RE C EIVED I!I U REAU OF M INES SEP 2 71983 may be able to find it by title and authors, i.e. Kettlebottoms: Their Relation to Mine Roof and Support By Frank E.Chase and Gary P.Sames can anyone else open it? |
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Post by dazbt on Nov 27, 2015 14:57:25 GMT -5
works OK for me as a direct clicked link from the message here. Here's a copy of the front page; [R I 18785 PLEASE DO NOT REMOVE FRQII1 LIBRARY s: Bureau of Mines Report of Investigations/1983 Kettlebottoms: Thei r Relation to Mine Roof and Support By Frank E. Chase and Gary P. Sames UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR RE C EIVED I!I U REAU OF M INES SEP 2 71983 may be able to find it by title and authors, i.e. Kettlebottoms: Their Relation to Mine Roof and Support By Frank E.Chase and Gary P.Sames can anyone else open it? I.E.11 I wonder if it's a 50/60Hertz incompatibility problem, it used to be the standard excuse. My system is powered by a multidirectional variable output, free-flow Esquilateral Wind Turbine, which at the moment is rotating anticlockwise against a 6.35m.p.h. South Westerly providing a 17 m Pascal pressure drop, compensated in part by a manually operated twin, self balancing reciprocating shuttle valve (you will of course remember the one used in the early AB16 Mk1 haulage system), all the coupling connectors are of the Ermeto 15.3945 tpi left hand Cycle Thread connecters at 43% impedance and secured at 12Nm, other than that I'm afraid I can't help further, possibly a new laptop for Christmas ? |
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Post by tygwyn on Nov 27, 2015 14:58:37 GMT -5
Same as John,Daz,crashed then code jibberish.
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Post by dazbt on Nov 27, 2015 15:32:06 GMT -5
Same as John,Daz,crashed then code jibberish. In that case, I'm at a loss .......................... as usual !!! |
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Post by John on Nov 27, 2015 15:40:23 GMT -5
Sounds like browser incompatibility, I thought all those problems had vanished years ago. This was common in the early days of the internet when all we had were two browsers, IE and Netscape.
When I started building personal websites back then, I had to check whether photos worked in both browsers, and alter the code accordingly. Rare these days, but still shows "browsers aint browsers".
I did a search and found the site, alas, same results, although I didn't doubt it would end up with a crashed browser.
Pretty odd though, as it's a pdf document and have read pdf docs many times in Firefox with zero problems.
Mines an old fashioned computer Daz, keyboard is an electronic Abacus running off 2000 volts DC, instant shock if I type a wrong spelling, water powered CPU at 1500psi, cooled by an old Frigidaire freezer, input is via 15 homing pigeons and output by 2 packhorses.
There's a letterbox for emails, and a doorbell to warn me of incoming mail, for scrolling I have a 100hp friction winder, some of the pages are fairly long so will be upgrading to 1000hp as this one grunts a bit on big pages.
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Post by John on Nov 27, 2015 15:44:41 GMT -5
Works perfectly in IE!
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Post by dazbt on Nov 27, 2015 15:58:59 GMT -5
See.................... I told you so, all this new fangled crap, stick to the basics every time, just goes to prove the old adage, ALDI beats TESCO to fits !! |
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Post by John on Nov 27, 2015 16:13:24 GMT -5
See.................... I told you so, all this new fangled crap, stick to the basics every time, just goes to prove the old adage, ALDI beats TESCO to fits !!
Firefox came on the scene a few years back, about 12 years I think, a kid of 17 wrote it, debugged it all in one day. He spent his summer vacation in Silicon Valley, all paid for by a computer program developer, bay all accounts, he put them to shame!!
FF had the rights purchased by Mozella(sp) some years back, been rewritten several times but still has bugs, but still prefer it over IE.
We don't have Tesco over here, but Aldi is pretty big. |
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Post by dazbt on Nov 28, 2015 10:00:33 GMT -5
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Post by dazbt on Nov 28, 2015 13:03:10 GMT -5
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Post by dazbt on Nov 28, 2015 13:05:36 GMT -5
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Post by tygwyn on Nov 28, 2015 15:31:33 GMT -5
Nice photo`s there Daz,opened them link`s fine,
What they call Kettle stones are tree trunks,only seen 2 of them underground,the first was when we were turning a new stall,it was there in the top after we fired down the first top hole,the 2nd was in an old 1878 level we re-opened,and one could look up around 12 to 15ft and see what was left of the tree trunk,as they come away in sectional disc`s.
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Post by dazbt on Nov 29, 2015 11:48:26 GMT -5
Nice photo`s there Daz,opened them link`s fine, What they call Kettle stones are tree trunks,only seen 2 of them underground,the first was when we were turning a new stall,it was there in the top after we fired down the first top hole,the 2nd was in an old 1878 level we re-opened,and one could look up around 12 to 15ft and see what was left of the tree trunk,as they come away in sectional disc`s. another pdf with a pic on page 12, figure13 of what is similar to Phil's "flying saucers" but it is a form of Ironstone ............ Siderite which is a form of Iron Carbonate (FeCo3). www.cdc.gov/niosh/mining/userfiles/works/pdfs/gficm.pdf |
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Post by tygwyn on Nov 29, 2015 15:26:18 GMT -5
That Siderite nodule is exactly what our Pan`s were,size for size with sandstone,these Pan`s were way heavier,and punchers would`nt tough them,strange they did`nt mention the thin layer of coal around them,unless their totally different again.
They must have been small ones in Phil`s pub.
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Post by quimbyj1745 on Nov 30, 2015 4:00:52 GMT -5
They were found in the bench seam at Haunchwood colliery, Warwickshire. The local name was "bobbies helmet". The floor mounted trepanner didn't like them.
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