Accidents still happening

[plantfit]

Ayup all,

Had a safety alert sent to me at work yesterday, Sad news, Two workers in an open cast coal site were killed when a dump truck drove over the land rover they were in. Completely avoidable accident so whats going wrong? Their ages were 35 & 48

Rog

[John]

plantfit said:

Ayup all,

Had a safety alert sent to me at work yesterday, Sad news, Two workers in an open cast coal site were killed when a dump truck drove over the land rover they were in. Completely avoidable accident so whats going wrong? Their ages were 35 & 48

Rog

If those are the big trucks Roger, I'd say it was almost impossible for the driver to avoid what happened. According to the drivers of those huge vehicles, it's the responsibility of smaller vehicle drivers to keep out the way.
Much the same as it was for us underground to keep clear of shuttlecars in a haulage road.
We were trained to be vigilant at all times and that drivers couldn't always see us.
When I was at British Gypsum, a scooptram driver went around a pillar and ran right into a Landrover parked there, his bucket made a nasty mess of the Landrover which shouldn't have been left in a vulnerable position.
The scooptram driver in the above incidents son is a member of this site btw.

[abdaz]

Any accidental death at work is real tragedy;
meanwhile the Chinese government 'proudly' announce that they have achieved a massive 9.8% reduction in the number of mining deaths in January and February 1907 as opposed to the 1906 figures, this means that only slightly more than 7 miners died for every working day in Chinese mines, at least officially that is, the international applause should be deafening ................

[abdaz]

Read 2007 and 2006 for 1907 and 1906, a century relapse created in the frustration of it all.

[John]

I wonder how their figures compare to the UK's pre mechanisation days in the 1700's Daz? I don't think even at the peak of our industry, the UK's, we had such a high number of deaths per day.. Sure we had some real nasty accidents, beam engine beam broke in a divided shaft, ignitions of gas in Welsh mines etc, but I don't think we had such an appaling record of safety, even though our mines were real appaling by todays standards. But we did learn, and legislation was brought in to protect us against ourselves and employers.


BTW, I'm working on publishing the M&Q Act Daz, so keep it coming t'old lad! Thanks mate.

[abdaz]

J, I did read a comparison piece that someone very clever had compiled which gave today's Chinese death rate ratios per production tonnage and also related it to other countries' death rates both historically and at the present ................. I'm afraid it meant nothing to me, if one Chinese miner dies for every 2,000,000 tonnes of Chinese coal produced compared to one American every 200,000,000 tonnes the result is still two coalminers dead. If the Chines coal miner death rate is 1 in every 1,000 coal miners working whilst US miners are killed at the rate of 1 in every 20,000 US coal miners, you still have two dead coal miners. I have to admit that when looking at 18th, 19th and even 20th Century coal mining disasters in the UK I have reflected on comparisons with what is happening in China today, it isn't even an excuse and certainly could never be a proper comparison. The technological awareness that 'we', 'they', 'the world' has today obviously just wasn't around in 1845, it is now and China has that awareness, it also, in the main, has the technological hardware, just possibly they are lacking in sufficient resources to be able to implement that fully throughout all their coal mining enterprises, but that couldn't ever be an excuse for the wasting of miner's lives ............. or could it?

[John]

Hell no Daz, no mans life is worth a toone of coal. I was just wondering if we had a better or worse record, the reason I cite the 1700's and 1800's is because those two centuries were our worst in the loss of life.
There are enough accidents in mining for ALL countries to look back on and improve their own safety record.
Seems to me what China needs is better and mandatory training of ALL mining personel, from the lowliest supply lad right up to the mine Manager.

Lets be right, we had the best training any country could offer. It stood me in good stead during my working life and probably saved my life a couple of times.

[abdaz]

Heyup J, it weren't a dig at you asking the question, it is a comparison that I would think everybody involved in coal mining has considered, and certainly one that comes to my mind every time I read about Chinese miners being blown to smithereens or drowned in mines flooded by water from abandoned workings, but the only answer is that although the ongoing situation reflects our own British mining history in probably similar numbers (or in truth is perhaps proportionally less) it shouldn't be allowed to happen in the world today, I know that you certainly feel that as well and I also believe that you are correct in stating that better education, awareness and accountability are at least part of the answer. One other aspect that really does gripe is the apparent awareness of the criminality behind many of these deaths, the proof being in the reoccurring frequency of mine owners and management disappearing after these disasters or maybe even worse hanging around to deny that there have been any fatalities.
Anyway, now I have that off my chest, did I ever tell you about my time working in the Datong mines, the finding of 5 or 6 unused detonators thrown away into the middle of a roadway, the cigarette packets that littered the place or perhaps best of all a used condom left hanging from a junction support, or the explosion I witnessed in a main gate caused by two electricians repairing a cable junction block with the power still on ......... no, I didn't? ............ well one day maybe, it would of course be your turn to buy the round.

[John]

Thats scary Daz, we all broke the law in our time underground, but at least we applied common sense to what we were doing.
For a long time while I was in NSW, we repaired trailing cables with a "Scotchcast" in a section that wouldn't flex, in longwall setups. I had the shearer cable blow out in the protected section from the GEB's to the flexible cable carrier in the m/g. I located it, repaired it with a "Scotchcast" waited the stated time for the compound to cure then let the face go again. Quite safe, nothing wrong with that type of sheath repair. It was later stopped by the Inspectorate as it didn't comply with authorised types of cable repairs.
I've done things which thinking back scare me now, like having the doors open on 3.3kv switchgear with interlocks defeated and power on! The repercussions if I'd accidently come into contact with that voltage!
Done that also many times with 1.1kv GEB's and 550 volt GEB's, all deadly dangerous!

Things changed when voltages of 11kv were in common use, no way would I have doors open on those breakers and switchgear!
I did break the engineers rules one night and worked on the primary side of a transformer without a "permit to work", that was supplied with 11kv. I made sure I had another electrician with me as a safeguard, I was leading hand, and we double and triple checked everything. I expected to get a size 12 boot up my rear end over that. But the boss was OK over it.

I was one of the electricians that worked to bring in the same "permit to work" scheme that we had with the NCB to Boulby Mine.
I put the idea forward at a monthly union meeting and followed up on it. The scheme worked real well, created more paperwork, but all in the interests of safety.

[abdaz]

"we all broke the law in our time underground"
I would just like to make it clear to everyone, that in 28 years of working on coalface equipment, its operation and repair, never once did I break the law, the Mines and Quarries Act to me was always the Gospel, even under the many pressures of responsibility and repercussions I never once wavered and anyone that knows me better or claims to have witnessed anything different had better start looking for a lawyer of some standing, unless that is of course unless you are John, Darren, Bill, Eric, Fred, Boris, Dave, Dickie, Sam, Cleggy, Pete, Smithie, Robbie, Horace, Fred, Kev, Lucky, Clem, Vic or one or two others I have known and worked with.

[limey]

I did some exploration work for Mobil in Wyoming - and at the gate to one of their strip mines was a full size pickup truck that had been run over by a haul truck. The pickup was FLAT! Apparantly the haul truck driver was backing up, and neither saw nor felt the truck he ran over!

[John]

I wasn't aware fitters could be in contravention of the M&Q Act Daz,,

[John]

When I was at Renison Bell tin mine in Tassie, I was told about one driver who turned a truck over in one of the drifts! When I was taken underground for the first time there I was show the exact spot, "Impossible" was my reply! Thats what we said, was what the other electrician came back with.. But it happened! Them blokes can do anything with machinery...

[abdaz]

admin said:

I wasn't aware fitters could be in contravention of the M&Q Act Daz,,

You are perfectly correct J, all mechanical engineers were granted exemption ............................. on medical grounds.

[John]

I'm saying nowt Daz..

[abdaz]

admin said:

When I was at Renison Bell tin mine in Tassie, I was told about one driver who turned a truck over in one of the drifts! When I was taken underground for the first time there I was show the exact spot, "Impossible" was my reply! Thats what we said, was what the other electrician came back with.. But it happened! Them blokes can do anything with machinery...

Well! almost anything;

outdoors.webshots.com/album/556596065SjrGYz

[John]

It's amazing how an operator will mistreat our wonderful machines Daz, well, it kept us in work repairing them..

[Sam from Kent]

One night shift I "borrowed" one of our pit bottom loco's and didn't notice the points split at the loader end and the loco ended up under the belt. The shift engineer came in and said what "thundering" (That was the worst he would say as he was a church man) idiot was driving this, and I had to admit it.

[John]

I once had a diesel Landrover "wound up" on a straight section of road down BG's Marblaegis Mine, I gazed down at the speeometer 60MPH, I'd run out of road so had to slow down. ;D
Stupid I know, but I was much younger and braindead back then ;D

I tried "winding" a Wagner Scooptram (LHD) up one nightshift I was taking back to the workshops to do a weekly on. Just to hard on my back so stuck at 15mph. The drivers used to race them, 25mph on the main roads.

I did have a de railment with a personnel carrier at Angus Place on the way out one morning. Half way along the main loco road, damned thing left the rails flat out!! Probably about 20mph. We just had to leave it as there wasn't any lifting equipment on the machine. Wasn't very popular over that issue. ;D

[smshogun]

Daz:

You have to remember its all about business and money as it was in the UK until quite late on in the mining history, right up until (and after) nationalisation the death of a man was something of a minor irritation as it may cut profits, that's how much a man's life was worth. Now in many countries much the same still applies, men's lives are worthless and profits still rule, and their thinking was that a man was a company asset which could simply be replaced if they died and in many parts of the world it is still their thinking.

[dazbt]

smshogun,
thanks for that, I had no idea.