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Post by dazbt on Oct 30, 2012 8:32:48 GMT -5
not quite the rap i had in mind but very nice all the same. thanks dazbt ;D ;D I suspect it's a North / South Divide sort of thing, North of Sheffield signalling was known as 'rapping', no doubt South of Killamarsh it was probably refered to as 'tinkling', or something similar. ;D
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rac
Shotfirer.
Posts: 87
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Post by rac on Oct 30, 2012 9:04:35 GMT -5
not quite the rap i had in mind but very nice all the same. thanks dazbt ;D ;D I suspect it's a North / South Divide sort of thing, North of Sheffield signalling was known as 'rapping', no doubt South of Killamarsh it was probably refered to as 'tinkling', or something similar. ;D always worked in north derbyshire pits and "rapping" was a common term as was "ringing off"when referring to signalling, strange how different area's had different expressions for the same thing differed pit to pit sometimes as well as i'm sure you know. ;D
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Post by erichall on Nov 21, 2012 6:36:25 GMT -5
Back to your original subject, John, I have to admit that my first weekend shift as a Deputy was on a Sunday night shift at Rockingham Colliery in the old S.Barnsley area. I had to alight (posh word for gerroff) at the inset in the shaft, travel to the training district to do an inspection, then back to the inset, and travel down to the bottom of the shaft and go to the neighbouring Platts Common pit to pre-shift and admit the electricity for the working face at that end. Never being one for heights, 2 rungs was high enough for me, I was terrified by the fact that I had to step off the chair, over the deep void onto the inset floor, all of 18 feet, sorry inches, just seemed like feet, go through the inset gate and ring the chair away. This action had to be repeated on the way down. We always contacted the Winder by telephone, went throughand closed the gate, rang the signal, then stepped back onto the chair. The agreement was that, on receiving the signal, the winder would wait for 30 seconds before moving off slowly. Funnily enough, at a later time , we were digging a fourty foot staple shaft on the proximityof the foot of the Blackshale PB at Markham, and I used to cross this on a plank, and scale a 30 foot rope ladder regularly, and it never bothered me. I stil send the missus up to clear the gutters on the bungalow though.
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Post by garryo on Nov 21, 2012 23:38:01 GMT -5
If you have a fear of insets then the following job isn't for you!
One of the hoist or winder electricians roles at shafts on the Zambian Copperbelt was to carry put "plat" or shaft level signal and telephone checks every week after winder exam. Each plat or inset would have shaft signal devices (Bells & Keys) for both the service winder and the skip winder (these were compartment shafts where you had a large double or triple deck cage & counterweight in one compartment and two ore skips in separate compartment. A further comparment would carry power cables, pipes etc). Altogether something like 6 bells and keys and a telephone at each level. Some of the shafts were over 4,000ft deep with levels or plats at intervals of 200-250ft, this means in some cases a total of 16 or more insets on top of that their were loading stations and sometimes intermediate pumping stations. one shaft at Rokana called SOB (Son of a pregnant dog you may ask, no Southern Ore Body) was 4285ft deep with the first level being 540ft level then 790L,1020L,1530L,!710L,2090L etc down to 4180L with loading stations at 2500L and 4040L. It used to take the sparky about 1 Hr to do the test, longer if there was a problem. Rope changing and recapping was a problem especially when stting up the overwinds on the Lilly's due to rope stretch.
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Post by colly0410 on Nov 23, 2012 13:52:55 GMT -5
16 insets Eh, 1 was enough for me. At Moorgreen TC when getting off at the piper inset, the instructor was usually first off & he'd stop & natter to his onsetter mate & the queue would stop dead. Often I was stood on the loading ramp & could't move forwards or backwards, I'd be thinking "don't look down, don't look down" but of course I always did & scared myself stupid. javascript:add("%20:o")
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Post by colly0410 on Nov 23, 2012 15:11:00 GMT -5
Garryo. Did that 4,000 odd feet shaft use guide ropes or guide rails? What sort of gap was there between the cage & the inset landings?
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Post by Wheldale on Nov 23, 2012 17:22:44 GMT -5
I would think the Zambian shafts will be similar to the South African gold mine shafts. Loads of insets for the horizon mining methods. Rigid guides. From what I remember in SA there was only a little gap between the cage and the inset, certainly couldnt fall through it. The main I did my onsetter training on the main shaft was 2000m deep. The neigbouring mine Kloof, had a 2000m deep shaft that contained 4 cages and 6 skips, 10m diameter wide shaft, again rigid guides.
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Post by dazbt on Nov 24, 2012 6:25:15 GMT -5
Wow, that sounds like one 'full up' shaft at Kloof, did they, or could they, all function simultaneously? What was the layout of the winding engines, how many winder operators? Must have been some set up, particularly coping with the potential of three skips discharging together.
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Post by John on Nov 24, 2012 6:57:01 GMT -5
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Post by Wheldale on Nov 24, 2012 9:24:27 GMT -5
I used to live in Glen Harvie, thats Kloofs mining village. The longwalls they have arnt like the mechanical coal ones. They are like the old hand got longwall faces. About 30 or so meters long per panel, supported by timber packs.
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Post by Wheldale on Nov 24, 2012 9:31:18 GMT -5
Wow, that sounds like one 'full up' shaft at Kloof, did they, or could they, all function simultaneously? What was the layout of the winding engines, how many winder operators? Must have been some set up, particularly coping with the potential of three skips discharging together. All the cages and skips operated at the same time. The winding engines from memory were positioned on 3 sides of the square concrete headgear.
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Post by John on Nov 24, 2012 9:54:10 GMT -5
I used to live in Glen Harvie, thats Kloofs mining village. The longwalls they have arnt like the mechanical coal ones. They are like the old hand got longwall faces. About 30 or so meters long per panel, supported by timber packs. I had an idea it wasn't a mechanised longwall, at those depths allowing a goaf to collapse as in coal, would cause tremendous damage to supports, I did do some research and found they also did power stowing, blowing waste from the mills into the void.
Here's a paper on a shaft accident, an overwind which caused a fair bit of damage, also shows the shaft layout of cages, counterweights and skips.www.amre.org.za/downloads/presentations/2011/Safety_19042011/Ben%20Potgieter.pdf
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Post by Wheldale on Nov 24, 2012 11:14:46 GMT -5
Just as I was leaving SA in 98, backfill was becoming popular. Crushed rock the size of sand was pumped down the shaft and used to fill large bags in the stope. The bags let the water out but not sand. Very effective!
Im sure the main shaft at Kloof had 10 cages/skips in it, mind you i was told about it 14 years ago so memory can play tricks. When I worked at West Driefontein 7 shaft, that had 4 massive cages, and 2 skips.
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Post by Wheldale on Nov 25, 2012 5:24:55 GMT -5
I've just checked about the Kloof main shaft. It has 4 skips and 6 cages. 31 foot in diameter. A big shaft!
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Post by cortonwood on Nov 25, 2012 8:00:06 GMT -5
I remember seeing the parkgate shaft at maltby for the first time after being transferred from barnburgh.I was gobsmacked at the size of the shaft and the logistics of it with the 4 skips....But these african set ups must be amazing,30 foot diameter shafts,half a dozen skips.i'd love to see them in action.
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Post by John on Nov 25, 2012 8:20:10 GMT -5
I remember seeing the parkgate shaft at maltby for the first time after being transferred from barnburgh.I was gobsmacked at the size of the shaft and the logistics of it with the 4 skips....But these african set ups must be amazing,30 foot diameter shafts,half a dozen skips.i'd love to see them in action. Not only that, but due to the depths, some have two skips on one rope, to reduce weight load due to having to have very thick ropes. Bottom rope is a smaller size, they hoist both and they discharge mid and top of shaft at the same time, then when the top skip reaches mid shaft it is loaded from the bottom skips previous load. Sounds odd to we who were used to conventional shaft systems. But then the Blair system was odd to me when I worked at Boulby.
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Post by Wheldale on Nov 25, 2012 10:55:09 GMT -5
I'm not sure on the exact layout of the Kloof shaft, but on the West Driefontein 6 shaft and Sub vertical shaft the shaft was split into 4 compartments. The two cages were side by side on one half of the shaft, the skips were side by side on the other side of the shaft. On 7 shaft they had 4 cages in like a square formation, then had two skips, one on each end of the block of cages, sorry not sure how to describe it.
You couldnt walk through a cage at a landing like you can in the UK. Tubs of supplies were pushed on and pulled of by hand. Some of the modern shafts are very impressive to look at! But even though the skips were automated, there was still a black man in the skip pocket ringing one on the signal bell when the skip was loaded!
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Post by John on Nov 25, 2012 12:18:51 GMT -5
I'm not sure on the exact layout of the Kloof shaft, but on the West Driefontein 6 shaft and Sub vertical shaft the shaft was split into 4 compartments. The two cages were side by side on one half of the shaft, the skips were side by side on the other side of the shaft. On 7 shaft they had 4 cages in like a square formation, then had two skips, one on each end of the block of cages, sorry not sure how to describe it. You couldnt walk through a cage at a landing like you can in the UK. Tubs of supplies were pushed on and pulled of by hand. Some of the modern shafts are very impressive to look at! But even though the skips were automated, there was still a black man in the skip pocket ringing one on the signal bell when the skip was loaded! Odd waste of labour... Usually on an automated skipping system, the flask weighing equipment normally controls the winder, ie as soon as the flask shows empty and the flask door closes it releases the winder brakes and automatically signals one from the pit bottom control panel. Basics are, lets assume a 20 tonne skip, flask "A" charges to 20 tonnes, chute moves to flask "B" and starts charging that flask with ore, if flask "A" hasn't tipped it's load by the time flask "B" reaches 75% full, the conveyor feeding the flasks stops.
Anyway, skip "A" arrives at the loading point, aligns, stops, winder brakes applied, flask door opens, weight sensor senses empty, flask door closes, releases winder brake lock, sends one on automated signals and as long as skip "B" doors are closed, the wind can initiate, once in motion, the winding engine can be changed to automatic until any problems arise. Usually filling and emptying of skips plus winding are faster than two flasks being filled, so shaft side conveyor normally never stops, there is always one flask charged ready to load.
That's basically the operation of automated skipping systems simply explained, but there are many factors that can go wrong as I learned over the few years I worked on Boulby's auto skipping setup. Like the two magnetic proximity switches either side of the shaft near loading level, and the one either side at the top of the tower at tipping level. Problems also after a rope change for several days due to rope stretch, skip doors seized, no compressed air for the skip doors, just to mention a few of the problems I encountered, and my first nightmare on my first shift on that job.......There was a changeover relay, one side was for the north side flask door, other for the south side flask door, sometimes they would be "out of sequence" at the start of mucking.... Great Onsetter though.."Fred used to flip that relay there with his pen" Get it wrong and 15 tonnes of mineral go into the sump!! Get it right and one skip loaded with 20 tonnes of mineral.
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Post by Wheldale on Nov 25, 2012 13:27:10 GMT -5
I might be wrong John about being Automated. When I was shown the skip winder, there was a fella there reading a newspaper. When the skip disharged at the surface he just flicked a switch and the winder reversed. When I was shown the skip pockets there was a black lad who rang one to raise the full skip. To be honest, that was probably classed as automated in SA at the time.
When you say odd use of labour some things were quite bizzarre! When you became a shift boss (simialr to an overman) you were given a picinin. That is fanakalo (mine language) for small. A picinin is a black lad who's job is to carry your tools and equipment. Samplers, geologist, surveyors all had these helpers. Each mine had converted mine cars with pedals - underground pedal powered transport. The higher up the ladder you were the faster black lad you had. Senior management had two black lads to pedel them around!! (and they could move)
I suppose as labour was so cheap it was keeping people in jobs!
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Post by colly0410 on Jul 21, 2015 10:07:58 GMT -5
When I started at Hucknall in December 1968 they were still working a face in the Main Bright seam. I was working in the stockyard loading mine cars. The mine cars for deep soft went to the downcast shaft & went straight to DS pit bottom. The MB inset off the DC shaft you got out the side of the cage through a small gate. The mine cars for Main Bright went to the upcast shaft & went down in a cage on top of the skip to the MB inset. However I don't know how they got the coal up from MB. Was it in mine cars on top of the skip? Or was there an inset loading point for skip winding? Could or did skips load at insets?
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Post by John on Jul 21, 2015 12:00:11 GMT -5
When I started at Hucknall in December 1968 they were still working a face in the Main Bright seam. I was working in the stockyard loading mine cars. The mine cars for deep soft went to the downcast shaft & went straight to DS pit bottom. The MB inset off the DC shaft you got out the side of the cage through a small gate. The mine cars for Main Bright went to the upcast shaft & went down in a cage on top of the skip to the MB inset. However I don't know how they got the coal up from MB. Was it in mine cars on top of the skip? Or was there an inset loading point for skip winding? Could or did skips load at insets? No idea how Hucknall sent it's coal up the shafts Steve, But I don't see any problems with having weighing flasks in insets, plenty of room between the flasks and the skips. That was one of my jobs at Boulby, keeping the shaft equipment running on production. We had two magnetic proximity switches mounted on the shaft steelworks that the skip magnets would operate, first one let the equipment "know" the skip was coming into line, second one stopped the winder and after a pre determined time, to allow the skip to settle from rope bounce, allowed the weighing flask to tip 20 tonnes into the skip. Similar set up in the towers, the only difference was the skip picked up a cross arm which carried the pneumatic hoses and a nozzle which mated with the fitting on top of the skip. Skip discharge door was air operated.
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Post by smshogun on Aug 1, 2015 14:00:09 GMT -5
No they didn't, what they did was send a coded word on the tannoy and the winder responded by two clicks of the speak button.
Last man out procedure varied from pit to pit but at Moorgreen it had its own signal which was 8 on the panel. You rang 8 with the gates open and got on the cage, you unhooked the mesh and let it fall so far and reached out and shut the gates, as you pulled your hands in the cage the mesh dropped and that was it.
First man in procedure began with a shaft exam and the shaftsmen rode down on top of the cage and used whistles, they wound right down the shaft and once they ascertained it had no water they would ascend and the onsetter got on the cage and they rang 7 and he rode down, when he got off at the pit bottom he rang a 7 to clear the system and signal everything was OK.
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