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Post by tygwyn on Sept 18, 2014 15:07:12 GMT -5
Since April the situation has taken an unexpected turn they have found a buyer/investor, Apparently an Indian Gentleman is either buying or funding the project,the strange thing is the old directors are still there,even though the Colliery went into receivership.
Longwall is still the method being banted about,
Will it work successfully with the bad roof that proved to not produce enough coal with the CM system they had there, There was talk that the bottom was causing trouble for the shuttle car`s taking the coal back,but most will know that once water gets into a bad bottom things get worse,but if a Longwall with the fully covered chocks advances quick enough,the bad bottom would be left behind before it causes a problem,or if a small layer of coal was left on the bottom to help with this,as some Collieries left a small layer in the roof when that caused a problem with the old type chocks.
Opinions from you experienced mechanised boy`s would build a better picture for me of the obtainable or not on this project,as i`m out of my depth on this kind of mining.
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Post by John on Sept 18, 2014 15:50:21 GMT -5
Since April the situation has taken an unexpected turn they have found a buyer/investor, Apparently an Indian Gentleman is either buying or funding the project,the strange thing is the old directors are still there,even though the Colliery went into receivership. Longwall is still the method being banted about, Will it work successfully with the bad roof that proved to not produce enough coal with the CM system they had there, There was talk that the bottom was causing trouble for the shuttle car`s taking the coal back,but most will know that once water gets into a bad bottom things get worse,but if a Longwall with the fully covered chocks advances quick enough,the bad bottom would be left behind before it causes a problem,or if a small layer of coal was left on the bottom to help with this,as some Collieries left a small layer in the roof when that caused a problem with the old type chocks. Opinions from you experienced mechanised boy`s would build a better picture for me of the obtainable or not on this project,as i`m out of my depth on this kind of mining. Working a longwall with bad roof and bad floor is a recipe for disaster. Once you lose the roof, it's hard to impossible to recover it. Modern mechanized roof supports can only "set" to a good roof, if the roof breaks up, they wont give any support. Worked on two faces that lost the roof, on in the Piper seam at the first pit I worked at, they never did recover good roof. It was a spot about three yards wide, the facemen were on the old power loading agreement, so essentially they were contract miners. They took an AB15 cutter up the face and drove an exploratory heading several yards the height of the face roof to see if the roof would improve, it didn't, the face was abandoned and all equipment recovered. The other face I was at Angus Place, cost us several weeks of lost production. The roof got flaky, including the face at the same place. The company I worked for flew in NCB mining engineers to see if they could help, as there was no experience in that sort of problem in Australia. They couldn't help, so the U/M took over and requested if he could bring in an experimental expanding foam with contractors skilled in it's use in industry. The roof above the shields was supported, a huge cavern many feet high!!, bolted and meshed. The face and face side roof was drilled, and foam pumped in. Literally hundreds of holes were drilled. Once cured, we took a cut, and the same treatment was carried out.
Eventually after several more days the face was past the bad area and we never saw bad roof again like that while I was was there.
Could a small mine cover such costs??? The colliery where that happened was owned and run by the NSW government for power station coal.. Must have cost a few million in lost production, wages, foam, roof bolts timber and mesh.
It was a mess!!
No Jim, I cannot see a mechanized longwall being successful with bad roof and floor.
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Post by tygwyn on Sept 18, 2014 16:40:03 GMT -5
Thank`s for the reply,but you seem to have made your mind up before looking at the facts,
This bad bottom,how bad is it?if its only a problem with the shuttle cars way back from the face,then its not as bad as it sounds, The bad top,how bad is it,?i don`t believe the CM`s had the bolters on them,so the time limit was allowing for roof sag,surely with a face advancing under a full steel roof could overcome this problem.
Where`s that Daz when you need him,he worked for the Indians,i only worked for the cowboys,lol.
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Post by John on Sept 18, 2014 17:45:40 GMT -5
Thank`s for the reply,but you seem to have made your mind up before looking at the facts, This bad bottom,how bad is it?if its only a problem with the shuttle cars way back from the face,then its not as bad as it sounds, The bad top,how bad is it,?i don`t believe the CM`s had the bolters on them,so the time limit was allowing for roof sag,surely with a face advancing under a full steel roof could overcome this problem. Where`s that Daz when you need him,he worked for the Indians,i only worked for the cowboys,lol. If the floors soft Jim, the heavy shields will dig in. Shields weigh in at about 30 tonnes, depends what capacity they are of course. In LW8 T/G at Angus Place, we had soft floor due to some water problems, and the last two to three shields had to be dug out continually, then after the shearer had cut out, there was a step for the T/G drive to climb up, caused some problems we couldn't overcome, but a total PITA to put it bluntly. The other problem with soft floor, is the shields "sink" into it.
Again, I've seen a CM throw tracks because of soft floor in Bord and Pillar working. Luckily not a total PITA there though, fitter used an air bag to raise the miner so he could work on the broken track. Hand things air bags!! All our locos carried one in case of derailments. They got their compressed air from the brake system.
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Post by tygwyn on Sept 19, 2014 5:15:53 GMT -5
Yes John,IF the floor is that soft,all that has come out is the soft floor was causing the shuttle cars problems way back from the face,you do realise they were carrying coal back around 100yds to the dump, Some bottom`s deteriorate rapidly when exposed to continual droppers,there has been no info on wetness in the face,so a full story of the conditions has not been stated,which makes a big difference.
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Post by John on Sept 19, 2014 6:00:43 GMT -5
Yes John,IF the floor is that soft,all that has come out is the soft floor was causing the shuttle cars problems way back from the face,you do realise they were carrying coal back around 100yds to the dump, Some bottom`s deteriorate rapidly when exposed to continual droppers,there has been no info on wetness in the face,so a full story of the conditions has not been stated,which makes a big difference. When I worked in a pillar extraction district, the cars were traveling over 300 yards Jim, I don't think there was too much cable than half the cars cable on the reels when they were loading at the CM.
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Post by tygwyn on Sept 19, 2014 6:17:35 GMT -5
300yds maybe,but does`nt sound like a soft bottom was a problem.
Reckon i`ll wait till someone else can answer my question.
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Post by John on Sept 19, 2014 7:48:23 GMT -5
300yds maybe,but does`nt sound like a soft bottom was a problem. Reckon i`ll wait till someone else can answer my question. There's a big difference with conditions a shuttle car will work in and 30 tonne powered roof supports Jim. Usually before a face is planned out, the company has manufacturers Reps check out the actual mining conditions that will be found. With the old NCB, they had their own "in house" engineers, not that they were any better than the manufacturers Reps.
My guess in hind sight over the bad roof we encountered at Clifton in the Piper seam was due to the roof supports not being big enough. They were Westphalia's, probably around 100 ton yield max. The face was prone to convergence bad!! The main reason the AB16/125 shearer was replaced with a conveyor mounted trepanner.
I think the biggest roof supports available at that time were Dowty Roofmasters, but I doubt they were big enough to control the heavy weighting in that face. From memory, the roof overall was pretty good until we hit the bad spot, but I'd hazard a guess the overall weighting of the face was the cause of the bad roof section.
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Post by John on Sept 24, 2014 14:10:52 GMT -5
Thank`s for the reply,but you seem to have made your mind up before looking at the facts, This bad bottom,how bad is it?if its only a problem with the shuttle cars way back from the face,then its not as bad as it sounds, The bad top,how bad is it,?i don`t believe the CM`s had the bolters on them,so the time limit was allowing for roof sag,surely with a face advancing under a full steel roof could overcome this problem. Where`s that Daz when you need him,he worked for the Indians,i only worked for the cowboys,lol. Yes, I wonder where Daz is, it's almost two months since he logged in and posted, very unusual for him, hope he's alright.
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Post by tygwyn on Sept 24, 2014 14:44:19 GMT -5
Yes,i hope he is keeping well ,not seen him on the Welsh forum either, Maybe he`s got himself a good hobble on that new Yorkshire Colliery,lol.
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Post by John on Sept 25, 2014 9:37:44 GMT -5
Yes,i hope he is keeping well ,not seen him on the Welsh forum either, Maybe he`s got himself a good hobble on that new Yorkshire Colliery,lol. I sent him an email yesterday, no reply as of yet.
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Post by John on Sept 28, 2014 7:49:19 GMT -5
Yes,i hope he is keeping well ,not seen him on the Welsh forum either, Maybe he`s got himself a good hobble on that new Yorkshire Colliery,lol. I sent him an email yesterday, no reply as of yet. Nothing heard from Daz so far, I know his health wasn't the best, just hope he's still with us.
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Post by colly0410 on Sept 28, 2014 12:16:41 GMT -5
[/quote]Nothing heard from Daz so far, I know his health wasn't the best, just hope he's still with us. [/quote]
Agree John, hope Daz is OK..
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Post by John on Oct 7, 2014 14:25:08 GMT -5
Still no reply from an email I sent Daz, very unusual for Daz not to reply or drop by and make a comment, also Bill Riley, aka ragger, hasn't been in for months.
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Post by colly0410 on Oct 8, 2014 9:56:57 GMT -5
Hope it's just their computers or internet connections acting up..
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Post by John on Oct 13, 2014 9:33:16 GMT -5
Hope it's just their computers or internet connections acting up.. I've had a message Daz is alright...That was a bit of good news.
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Post by colly0410 on Oct 13, 2014 15:07:14 GMT -5
Hope it's just their computers or internet connections acting up.. I've had a message Daz is alright...That was a bit of good news. Glad to hear he is OK..
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Post by tygwyn on Oct 13, 2014 18:48:58 GMT -5
I knew he had`nt gone to that coalface in the sky,not before leaving a few pints behind the bar for the boy`s,
I told you he had been busy setting up them new machines to start that Yorkshire drift,
Good on ere lad.
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Post by tygwyn on Apr 3, 2015 8:07:56 GMT -5
Whether this bid comes off,anybodies guess,but the owners of Nant Hir Smallmine have placed a bid in for Unity, Nant Hir has started up again a couple of months back and have started producing,there are big plans on the horizon, Make of this what you will www.welshcoalmines.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,59705,61250#msg-61250
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Post by dazbt on Apr 4, 2015 14:47:32 GMT -5
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Clive
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Post by Clive on Apr 9, 2015 16:44:22 GMT -5
Whether this bid comes off,anybodies guess,but the owners of Nant Hir Smallmine have placed a bid in for Unity, Nant Hir has started up again a couple of months back and have started producing,there are big plans on the horizon, Make of this what you will www.welshcoalmines.co.uk/forum/read.php?2,59705,61250#msg-61250 Jim I always thiought the site was destroyed by opencast. wasnt it the pit that was in the telly years ago
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Post by tygwyn on Apr 10, 2015 2:53:56 GMT -5
Clive, The whole mountain was opencasted,11 Smallmines went,even the old Nant Hir went,but when the opencast wanted to expand Southwards on the crop of the Rhondda No.2 and Pinchin seams,the Fyfields were working the Darrel Colliery,and were offered the Red Vein take at the highwall of the old Nant Hir if they would vacate the Darrel Colliery,and hence opened Nant Hir No.2,
Did`nt see the programme Clive,but it was the only working Smallmine left on that mountain so it must have been Nant Hir No.2.
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Clive
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Post by Clive on Apr 12, 2015 7:56:17 GMT -5
Did`nt see the programme Clive,but it was the only working Smallmine left on that mountain so it must have been Nant Hir No.2. Surprised you not seen that one Jim, maybe you forgotton but here's the link pitty cant find that doc that was done when they did the secret filming at Slee's pits because Robbin Rock was on the same program, Robbin Rock was up in the roman wall
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Post by tygwyn on Apr 12, 2015 16:48:55 GMT -5
Thanks Clive for reminding me, Until recently i have not watched TV for nearly 6 years,but watched Coal in my blood on u tube from a link,maybe one you posted.
The first face on that video is Albert Thomas,he opened Nant Hir first off,and the opencast had it from him, In the meeting,the white haired man in the brown pullover is Will Fyfield,him and his Sons opened the Nant Hir No.2 in the highwall after the opencast had finished,they came here when the opencast moved South and took the outcrop of the Darrel were the Fyfields were working.
I have not seen that undercover filming of Slee`s,it was in the March Hywel Colliery,apparently it showed everything that went on in a Smallmine,the Tesco bag powder canisters,the boy`s loading and firing their own shotholes and smoking underground along with some eloquent underground speech,lol.
Was Robbin Rock the undercover reporter?
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Clive
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Post by Clive on Apr 13, 2015 15:20:22 GMT -5
Its exactly 20 years ago this month Jim, the John Slee doc. remeber it well as we were flying out to Tennessee the day after and we were in a hotel down at heathrow. We had Jim Arthure as an inspecor for a while and he regailed us with a few anicdotes.
I Had almost forgotten that Tesco made powder canisters. They were more sturdy than the Asda det boxes.
Thinking back Jim I reckon the Robin rock must have been around 1989. The first time I went up to Alston, while we were on holiday, I remember looking for the pits and driving past them and crossing the boarder from Cumberland into Northumberland and thinking to myself that this is were all the dangerous pits are, so it must have been just before then.
It may have been a panorama prog, I cant remember much apart from Robin Rock, them chasing the owners who didn't partiqurly want to be interviewed. from what I remember an underground belt fire, or fire on elect equip had caused the electrition to have a heart attack in the drift. From what I heard when I moved up here he had either heart problems or angina. One of the lads at Barhaugh had done a bit over there and he didn't find much to complain about but I dont think the pit lasted long after that, 2 bros ran it I think.
It was up in the roman wall, above Barden Mill, between Hexham and Haltwhistle. working the Thirlwall coal, which is below the Little Limestone. Kenny, who worked at Ayle, had been in the thirlwall up there but I think at a different pit (could have been the same). It was a post stone roof but with 3' of segger clay between the coal and the post. According to Kenny if a crack apeared in the seggar there was nowt you could do to hold it, it would just fall up to the post. I didn't fancy the sound of it, we had something similar at Greenclough near Burnley.
The old man had tried the thirlwall coal quite a bit but nobody (not even NCB at Chapel Burn) could make much of it. Only thirlwall colliery itself near Greenhead and Gilsland did anything, and that wasn't much as it kept going bust between 1909 and 1920 odd.
As to the rest of the program I cant remember which other colliery owners they were hounding.
The price of coal at grimebridge had plumited in late 80's with cegb. I think Billy got a rise after the small mines fed had wone their battle, but 12 months later it was back down to the low price. It shut alot of pits.
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merlin
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Post by merlin on Apr 30, 2015 12:24:45 GMT -5
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