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Post by John on Oct 23, 2012 7:25:25 GMT -5
Here's a board for post NCB subjects.
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Post by tygwyn on Aug 16, 2013 18:50:30 GMT -5
Unity/Pentreclwydau Colliery,Cwmgwrach,Glyn neath, On the news this evening,there`s talks of lay off`s at the Colliery,look`s like another to go down the pan,
And there`s a rumour Aberpergwm is up for sale with Walters Energy ,the American company that bought out the previous Canadian owners,the name slips me.
If these 2 Collieries go,that`s only Dan y graig No.4,a Smallmine left working in South Wales.
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Clive
Shotfirer.
Posts: 168
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Post by Clive on Aug 20, 2013 14:16:16 GMT -5
Sad to hear that Jim. There seams to be a bit more interst sprouting up here towards opening a few. Heard on the grape vine that someone is having a look near 4 stones and there has been some activity up near Whittle.
The drilling rig up Alston is still in operation, looking for metal. There was a rig up on Hartside yesterday, but don't know if they were drilling for water ?
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Post by tygwyn on Aug 22, 2013 13:03:26 GMT -5
Well the latest on Unity,better than 150 job losses,but not much good to a man with family ,
Apparently they only have work for a 1/4 of the workforce,so they have been offered instead of redundancies,that 220 odd men have to share the work of 60 odd,
They are changing over to longwall faces,even though they have been having trouble holding the roof, And the planning issue`s banded about,are regarding an opencast,which if i`ve got it located correctly,is either the outcrop of the Rhondda No`s 1 or 2,around the old Bryn Cwm Collieries,near enough to the Rheola Colliery.
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Post by dazbt on Aug 22, 2013 13:30:34 GMT -5
"Apparently they only have work for a 1/4 of the workforce,so they have been offered instead of redundancies,that 220 odd men have to share the work of 60 odd,"
The NCB managed to work on that basis for quite a while, 220 men employed to do the work of 60.
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Post by John on Aug 22, 2013 16:30:09 GMT -5
"Apparently they only have work for a 1/4 of the workforce,so they have been offered instead of redundancies,that 220 odd men have to share the work of 60 odd,"
The NCB managed to work on that basis for quite a while, 220 men employed to do the work of 60. And a few more....
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Post by tygwyn on Aug 22, 2013 16:42:56 GMT -5
I do hope you are having a joke Daz?,we all know how the NCB worked, Some of these boy`s will be lucky to get 1 or 2 days pay,not much cop when you have a family and a mortgage, Like it ,or take a hike.
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Clive
Shotfirer.
Posts: 168
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Post by Clive on Aug 23, 2013 12:01:51 GMT -5
small comfort Jim; if they get over the 16 hours at least the family credit will help and might get a little rent rebate ect. Cold comfort farm I know but better than job seekers when now they have to wait 3 weeks for any brass, thanks to messers oebourn and co.
Bit daft going longwall with a dodgy roof. If they loose tha face then thats the end of that, unless they have a few faces (which I doubt due to expence). Acording to Kevin up at Ayle, there is a real shortage of coal in the country since daw mill. I also know that its getting harder to get hold of the explosives as well.....Just not the demand no more...daw mill again.
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Post by tygwyn on Aug 23, 2013 12:43:40 GMT -5
One of the Firemen working in Unity told us last night, The Firemen will get 1 weeks work in 3, And other workers 1 weeks work in 5, No chance of dole,and if they leave no redundancy, And no redundancies offered,
Similar to the 1930`s.
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Post by John on Aug 23, 2013 12:49:32 GMT -5
Jim, I'm resuming you mean a mechanised longwall??? If so, can't see how they will make a success with it if the roof is poor, they will end up standing more than cutting, and with modern shields, they need a solid roof to set properly. In my experience, once the roof starts to go, the face is just about finished... I wonder who's bright idea it is to install a longwall in a seam with poor roof conditions???
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Post by tygwyn on Aug 23, 2013 14:17:49 GMT -5
Yes John,they`ve pulled the CM`s and Shuttle cars out and intend longwalling,
Although there is no equipment there yet,
If that ain`t the writing on the wall,nothing ain`t.
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Post by John on Aug 23, 2013 15:33:33 GMT -5
Yes John,they`ve pulled the CM`s and Shuttle cars out and intend longwalling, Although there is no equipment there yet, If that ain`t the writing on the wall,nothing ain`t. I've been on three faces that had very bad roof, one was with the NCB in the 60's, couldn't hold the roof in one place, and with convergence was becoming a danger to the men working on it, so it was salvaged . 2nd one was in Oz, lost the main gate end in a major fall, we lost about three weeks of production, the stage loader sustained serious damage and had to be removed after the fall had been cleared and secured, for major repairs. I don't know how many tons of timber went over the M/G shields going through the fall area, but a fair few tons!!
Next was in Oz, that stopped us for around six weeks, nobody knew what to do, it was one major mess. The company flew some NCB strata experts and some mining engineers out to see if they knew how we could get over it...All they said was "It's a mess" couln't offer any advice as they hadn't seen anything like it. That was the first time expanding foam was used underground in an Australian colliery. We overcame it with lots of hard work on the face teams bolting, timbering and a contract company drilling roof and face and injecting foam.
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Mick
Shotfirer.
Posts: 163
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Post by Mick on Aug 23, 2013 16:32:09 GMT -5
Worked in lidget at wheldale what a bloody mess that was spent over a month with a shovel in one hand and chock lumps in other,remember shouting to tailgate for 500 chocks and 200 wood bar in one go. There was more money pumped onto face in timber than any coal that was cut ,i was on no1 machine and never saw any gate for well over 3 month. The dust was so bad in the end we told the boss to stick the face ware the sun dunt shine one week we made 5p bonus a shift,and because the bonus system was set for face by face that's all we got. Mick.
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Mick
Shotfirer.
Posts: 163
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Post by Mick on Aug 23, 2013 16:40:46 GMT -5
On another note Ivor Williams was manager and George Bond was prodution Manger at the time,it was there xmas do at Bay horse when we stopped work on face and bondy come down pit and i can tell he had had a few he said to me if i get on that face and there's nothing wrong your sacked no messing about. Well he get's on face shout to start cutting and that was it the air was blue and not a nother lump of coal left that face,bye bye bloody lidget and thank god lol. Mick.
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Post by dazbt on Aug 26, 2013 14:09:37 GMT -5
Jim, I'm resuming you mean a mechanised longwall??? If so, can't see how they will make a success with it if the roof is poor, they will end up standing more than cutting, and with modern shields, they need a solid roof to set properly. In my experience, once the roof starts to go, the face is just about finished... I wonder who's bright idea it is to install a longwall in a seam with poor roof conditions??? Sorry for being so thick but I’ve got to ask ……………………….. can “ mechanised Longwalling” never be expected to work in so called poor ground? or, is it possible that a set of circumstance where poor ground that would cause problems to, or even prevent CM methods of extraction wouldn’t particularly prevent a powered roof support Longwall from working? Probably as a result of my very limited experience in matters of roof control I thought that it might just be possible that roof control problems experienced in the very different application of Continuous Mining methods might not always prevent safe and successful Longwalling extraction methods, any thoughts?
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Post by tygwyn on Aug 26, 2013 16:28:01 GMT -5
No idea Daz,i`m only used to timber supports,never worked on any mechanized faces, But the size 8 had a good motor behind it,lol.
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Post by John on Aug 26, 2013 16:59:24 GMT -5
Jim, I'm resuming you mean a mechanised longwall??? If so, can't see how they will make a success with it if the roof is poor, they will end up standing more than cutting, and with modern shields, they need a solid roof to set properly. In my experience, once the roof starts to go, the face is just about finished... I wonder who's bright idea it is to install a longwall in a seam with poor roof conditions??? Sorry for being so thick but I’ve got to ask ……………………….. can “ mechanised Longwalling” never be expected to work in so called poor ground? or, is it possible that a set of circumstance where poor ground that would cause problems to, or even prevent CM methods of extraction wouldn’t particularly prevent a powered roof support Longwall from working? Probably as a result of my very limited experience in matters of roof control I thought that it might just be possible that roof control problems experienced in the very different application of Continuous Mining methods might not always prevent safe and successful Longwalling extraction methods, any thoughts? Might seem odd Daz, but in poor roof conditions a CM will fair a lot better with props, bars, "W" straps and bolts. Once you lose the roof with modern heavy duty chock shields, you're "up the creek without a paddle". Once a roof is lost on a modern longwall, it costs many hours and sometimes weeks to regain it, if ever. A shield needs a "roof" or it has nothing to support, unfortunately it can only extend so far, and if there's a huge void above them, bed separation is going to beat you. If you're working Bord and Pillar and the roof starts getting flaky, you can set a few wood chocks to prevent it getting worse, in fact with B&P, you are always "in charge of roof conditions" I've seen a major fall in Bord and Pillar, but it's no great problem, it's just left, and the district works around it, but as you are aware it's kind of impossible to leave a longwall...Sure you can recover the equipment, but no coal is being cut. As I mentioned, seen three longwalls that developed bad roof conditions, the NCB one was just salvaged, the two in Oz, we recovered them at great cost in lost production, tons of tmber, and an experiment with expanding foam, which worked..But if it had failed, we'd have salvaged the face and lost a lot of production as there was no face line ready for a new face... I worked in CM cut Bord and pillar for a number of years, one district I covered electrically was a modified pillar extraction known as the "Wongawilli method" When we started "lifting off" there was only one experienced man, so it was a lecture from the Deputy at the beginning of each shift until every man was fully conversant with the system.. Extraction wise, we cut about 75%, maybe more and only had one major fall....The Inspector was happy, no blame attached and it was just one of those things...The CM was severely damaged as the miner driver never expected the roof to drop so far back....It was working bad so we all mucked in to get the miner and two cars to a safe area and try to set some breaker props...Failed, the roof was converging too fast...We were all pretty lucky to get out! But, once we had the all clear from the mines Inspector, and a spare miner trammed in, started lifting the next fender off, lost time? about three shifts, at the most. Not sure if I covered your question...
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Post by dazbt on Aug 27, 2013 2:54:13 GMT -5
Thanks for that J, I then wonder if Unity's Bankers and Insurers are aware of the technical risks of them "going Longwall"??
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Post by John on Aug 27, 2013 6:18:54 GMT -5
Thanks for that J, I then wonder if Unity's Bankers and Insurers are aware of the technical risks of them "going Longwall"?? I'd imagine, most investors rely on the expertise of the company involved, I doubt investors have ever been in any underground situation in their lives, let alone actually worked in mining Daz. As for Unity, sounds very much like they are going to fall flat on their faces chasing big bucks and high output when conditions don't allow their "pipe dreams". Even our old employer, the NCB did some stupid things at times, and they had some of the best mining engineers in the world on their team, but they still refused to listen to them and went wildly on their way... Lofthouse comes to mind, and a brand new pit in Scotland another...
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Post by dazbt on Aug 27, 2013 6:23:51 GMT -5
Thanks for that J, I then wonder if Unity's Bankers and Insurers are aware of the technical risks of them "going Longwall"?? I'd imagine, most investors rely on the expertise of the company involved, I doubt investors have ever been in any underground situation in their lives, let alone actually worked in mining Daz. As for Unity, sounds very much like they are going to fall flat on their faces chasing big bucks and high output when conditions don't allow their "pipe dreams". Even our old employer, the NCB did some stupid things at times, and they had some of the best mining engineers in the world on their team, but they still refused to listen to them and went wildly on their way... Lofthouse comes to mind, and a brand new pit in Scotland another...Corporate suicide then eh? A truly shocking state of affairs.
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Post by John on Aug 27, 2013 7:50:26 GMT -5
I'd imagine, most investors rely on the expertise of the company involved, I doubt investors have ever been in any underground situation in their lives, let alone actually worked in mining Daz. As for Unity, sounds very much like they are going to fall flat on their faces chasing big bucks and high output when conditions don't allow their "pipe dreams". Even our old employer, the NCB did some stupid things at times, and they had some of the best mining engineers in the world on their team, but they still refused to listen to them and went wildly on their way... Lofthouse comes to mind, and a brand new pit in Scotland another...Corporate suicide then eh? A truly shocking state of affairs. Only Unity's management will be able to comment on that Daz....
Maybe they have been misquoted on the longwall??? Maybe they are looking into longwalling with a CM??? Even the NCB operated a few CM shortwalls, which is basically lifting "fenders off" bit wasteful in time though.
A few questions that could be asked, is Unity trying to write off the mine?? Have they an insurance policy that pays up if the longwall fails??? Is the colliery being used as a corporation tax write off???
As others will say from our Welsh mining fraternity, some Welsh mines were not suited to modern mechanised longwall equipment due to adverse geological conditions.
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Mick
Shotfirer.
Posts: 163
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Post by Mick on Aug 27, 2013 9:51:46 GMT -5
Lofthouse was in my mind the biggest wake up call the NCB ever had,i was on afters that week and remember been in bath when overman came in and told us to be ready to go there. The pit i was at at the time was Gomersal and it never cut or filled another peace of coal,after doing a load of boring underground they found out we had gone under 7 old workings that were not on any map. Also about a mile from ware we were a hole showed up in a field,and they could hear water running. Mick.
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Post by dazbt on Aug 27, 2013 10:02:44 GMT -5
Corporate suicide then eh? A truly shocking state of affairs. Only Unity's management will be able to comment on that Daz....
Maybe they have been misquoted on the longwall??? Maybe they are looking into longwalling with a CM??? Even the NCB operated a few CM shortwalls, which is basically lifting "fenders off" bit wasteful in time though.
A few questions that could be asked, is Unity trying to write off the mine?? Have they an insurance policy that pays up if the longwall fails??? Is the colliery being used as a corporation tax write off???
As others will say from our Welsh mining fraternity, some Welsh mines were not suited to modern mechanised longwall equipment due to adverse geological conditions.Sounds as though it might not be all doom and gloom then after all, I hope so for all their sakes, just hope it all happens quickly and works well for them.
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Post by Wheldale on Aug 27, 2013 13:05:49 GMT -5
Lofthouse was in my mind the biggest wake up call the NCB ever had,i was on afters that week and remember been in bath when overman came in and told us to be ready to go there. The pit i was at at the time was Gomersal and it never cut or filled another peace of coal,after doing a load of boring underground they found out we had gone under 7 old workings that were not on any map. Also about a mile from ware we were a hole showed up in a field,and they could hear water running. Mick. Mick, my dad Ernie Franks was undermanager at Kellingley at the time of Lofthouse. He was sent to help at Lofthouse. My dad told me he was in charge of building the piggy back tunnel on top of the flooded road way. My dad didn't say much about Lofthouse but he did say it was him and the HMI fella that recovered the only body. like you say, it was a big wake up call, I wonder how many pits finished or seams were abandoned after Lofthouse due to old workings?
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Post by John on Aug 27, 2013 15:45:50 GMT -5
The NCB did spend a lot of money on test bores in areas where it was thought there were old workings, you can go to the coal authorities site and they have maps of all the bores carried out by the NCB, both surface down to U/G up and down in seam proving. Lofthouse was a waking call though, they were in such a hurry to get that face started before all possible information had been collected, and we all know the final results.
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Post by tygwyn on Aug 27, 2013 17:06:24 GMT -5
Sadly,even with proven underground plans,tragedy occurs,ie the Gliesion.
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Post by John on Sept 1, 2013 11:13:30 GMT -5
Again reading the Welsh Miners forum, the answers look like it's a planned bankruptcy for a takeover of the company, what better to saddle a mine with than debt, and the best way to increase debt is to install expensive machinery that is known will fail.. Looks like the owners of Unity require to be investigated by the relevant authorities, I'll bet some of what is going on is illegal and could lead to long jail sentences.
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Post by tygwyn on Dec 18, 2013 19:33:21 GMT -5
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Post by tygwyn on Apr 24, 2014 16:54:58 GMT -5
Since no buyers interested in taking on the liabilities,the receivers have decided to close the Colliery, Most likely it will be Gasified or Methane extracted.
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Post by tygwyn on Apr 24, 2014 16:55:31 GMT -5
Since no buyers interested in taking on the liabilities,the receivers have decided to close the Colliery, Most likely it will be Gasified or Methane extracted.
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