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Post by dazb on May 24, 2005 12:33:17 GMT -5
Strikes
The previous discussion started in the Coal Mine Forum Canteen relates to a subject that I believe to have been a fundamental part of British coal mining history. By fundamental I don't mean that all strikes were conducted in a constructive way nor that they were intended to be destructive, but I believe that every event of striking did in someway influence attitudes, reactions and repercussions in some way and therefore played a part in bringing about changes either for the better or otherwise.
I am certainly not an historian or a strong Unionist and if I ever had leanings towards capitalism then I failed miserably in ever finding the necessary support. So the following thoughts are exactly only that, my personal thoughts; from what I have read, heard, experienced and probably assumed I believe that historically the combination of Trade Union struggles in their formation, their intention and relevant actions could be categorised within various periods, initially the formation of collective workers strength was essential in the battle against the evil of the coalowner’s tyranny, later they were a necessary in maintaining a deterrent and perhaps even later a necessary evil in their own right. I am sure that there were numerous methods of negotiation applied by the various Coal Miner’s Unions in times of dispute with coalowners and later Coal Board management but I can’t think that the unions would have any effective means of defence or influence other than the withholding of labour (out and out strike action or working to rule) in times of attempting to maintain or better working conditions and rates of pay. Obviously if the Union or the coalowners / management were outwith of the law then the magnificently fair legal system of Great Britain could be been invoked and expected to provide a fair and balanced decision that would be accepted and applied by either sides.
I hope that this post is a lead into a discussion that may well have been thought taboo but as the farsighted Admin obviously believes it will be an interesting source of individual and constructive thoughts and discussion.
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Post by John on May 24, 2005 12:44:18 GMT -5
I was hoping to attract "Red" Dave Douglass to the forum Daz, he'd have made some good points, from his point of view" to this thread.
Having been away from the UK for some 26 years, what I know about the "big strike" was all second hand, via our unions when I was in Oz. We had collections, of which I contributed, to help you blokes out during that long dispute.
Back to Dave, he emailed me he is pretty busy, doing what?? I haven't a clue.
He and I had a long email debate going for weeks a couple of years back, very interesting bloke, who was blacklisted after the strike.
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Post by dazb on May 24, 2005 12:58:00 GMT -5
Well yer got Dopey Dark Brown Drab Daz instead, sorry!!!
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Post by John on May 24, 2005 13:00:57 GMT -5
Like I've stated in my last post, I only know what happened in the "big one" second hand.
My thoughts on the big strike.
The NUM was the last most powerful union in the UK. It's power had already toppled a government way back in the 1970's.
Being a powerful group, the miners posed a threat to the stability of the powers that be. "How do you smash an institution" as strong as the NUM without invoking the wrath of the rest of the fragmented union movement and making them strong again?
I'd say much thought and planning went into the plan!
First and foremost, the powers that be had to make as many pits as possible uneconomical, Bill told me they had ludicrously high bonuses, so I would assume that went on all across the coalfields, make a pit unprofitable on paper. Select seams of poor quality, pour millions into developing them, then after a pre determined time pull out and work another area.
Plan for mass closures, if the pits aren't there, then NUM membership drops, taking away the powers they once had.
Plan for a big strike, build coal stocks, secure overseas contracts to suppliment the stocks, pass draconian laws ready to impliment when the strike takes place. Get ready to manipulate the media in your favour, start training troops in policing actions to bolster the police force. Train special forces in crowd manipulation to stir trouble up and cause violence.
Move local police to other areas and move unsympathetic cops into the mining areas, train them in violent crowd control. Ready the government purses to pay these police extra for their co-operation.
Then announce massive pit closures and sit back....
How right am I so far??
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Post by John on May 24, 2005 13:09:38 GMT -5
Well yer got Dopey Dark Brown Drab Daz instead, sorry!!! He actually sent me one of his books during the debate we were having. Interesting man, even though I don't agree with everything he stands for. |
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Post by dazb on May 24, 2005 13:24:45 GMT -5
As a result of placing myself in a position of self-doubt regard my memories of the frequent pit strikes in the 1947 / 1972 and being the sad type of person that I am, I appealed to The National Coal Mining Museum for info regarding the frequency and reasons for colliery’s strike actions during the period 1947 to 1972 and have just received an extensive list of sources of documented occurrences, I will obviously let you know the results, as and when I track down the various publications.
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Post by dazb on May 24, 2005 13:38:03 GMT -5
"How right am I so far??"
I dunno, apart from the fact that Police Training in "trade union" crowd control problems started in 1972 as a direct result of the miner's strike. The French police tactics of "Trudging and Wedging" as well as "Snatch Squads" were taught to the British Police Forces selected task force members as soon as the 1972 NUM success was determined.
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Post by spanker on Nov 24, 2011 17:31:30 GMT -5
We have in Britain a looming strike within the local government, employees on the 30th of this month will be taking action involving possible projected future days, apparently we have to pay more for less and wait longer to receive the pension.
Since leaving the N.C.B/British coal i have gone on to be a local government employee and i would just like to ask the members of our forum what their thoughts are about my actions.
Do you feel i am being unreasonable in asking not to pay more 3.5percent extra in pension/month to receive less and at a later age 66 or should i just shut up feel grateful that i will be getting a pension and let the corrupt officials of this beautiful country just walk all over me.
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Post by Wheldale on Nov 25, 2011 7:53:08 GMT -5
Spanker, my wife is a teacher and will be on strike. I support the action. My wife was attracted to the job by the perks. She will have to pay 100 quid a month extra under the new scheme. If the pension contributions have to change then it should be for new starters only. My wife asked me if she should strike, i told her she should. Her union has got her all kinds of perk, payrises etc. To break the strike would be a kick in the teeth for her union.
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rac
Shotfirer.
Posts: 87
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Post by rac on Nov 27, 2011 13:07:55 GMT -5
Like I've stated in my last post, I only know what happened in the "big one" second hand. My thoughts on the big strike. The NUM was the last most powerful union in the UK. It's power had already toppled a government way back in the 1970's. Being a powerful group, the miners posed a threat to the stability of the powers that be. "How do you smash an institution" as strong as the NUM without invoking the wrath of the rest of the fragmented union movement and making them strong again? I'd say much thought and planning went into the plan! First and foremost, the powers that be had to make as many pits as possible uneconomical, Bill told me they had ludicrously high bonuses, so I would assume that went on all across the coalfields, make a pit unprofitable on paper. Select seams of poor quality, pour millions into developing them, then after a pre determined time pull out and work another area. Plan for mass closures, if the pits aren't there, then NUM membership drops, taking away the powers they once had. Plan for a big strike, build coal stocks, secure overseas contracts to suppliment the stocks, pass draconian laws ready to impliment when the strike takes place. Get ready to manipulate the media in your favour, start training troops in policing actions to bolster the police force. Train special forces in crowd manipulation to stir trouble up and cause violence. Move local police to other areas and move unsympathetic cops into the mining areas, train them in violent crowd control. Ready the government purses to pay these police extra for their co-operation. Then announce massive pit closures and sit back.... How right am I so far?? i would say you're bang on-from 1st hand experience |
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Post by John on Nov 27, 2011 16:07:42 GMT -5
The longest strike I was in was started as a lockout by my employer when I lived and worked in Australia.
The Miners Federation had closed the books, ie the coal mining industry was a closed shop, they wouldn't allow any new members to be taken on. It was at a time of the early 80's recession, our steel industry was downturning production and working at a steelworks pit, the most productive districts in our group of collieries was stopped producing coal.
Of course we had no overtime.
The industry as a whole had overtime bans in place via union votes as we were after a new "contract", new bonus scheme, a pay raise, extra sick leave and an extra weeks holiday leave.
My company had already asked us to lift all restrictions, so we could see trouble ahead, even though they didn't want extra coal, or we to work overtime or employ any new men.
I arrived for work on night, got changed, picked up my lamp and rescuer and got my work off my engineer for the night.
About half an hour later as we were about to get onto the manrider that would take us up the escarpment, the Under Manager walked out after a phone call. "OK" he shouted "are you all going to honour your agreement, ie work overtime etc....."
As someone shouted, "what overtime, there isn't any"
Too true!!
"Then I take it you are still in dispute with the company"??
He said there was no work for us, so we went to get changes and go home, while a shop steward called his next one up the ladder to inform him what had happened.
Next day we were informed over the local radio station to report for work as normal, get changed etc... But our lamps and rescuers had been locked away and we were sent home.
The previous shift, there appeared to be a written agreement that if they didn't stop us getting our lamps and rescuers before being informed there was no work, they had to pay us a minimum six hours.
Next shift we found the gates firmly padlocked at the colliery entrance!
There were about six or seven steelworks pits in the southern district, several in the northern district, all had the same treatment by AI&S a subsidiary of BHP.
In response to this further action, mine workers at every pit in NSW walked off the job and about a day later Queensland mine workers walked off in support of us.
Ironically, the state government never saw this coming, so hadn't stockpiled coal at the power stations!!
We had weekly meetings at the various coalfields and it was stalemate. The media were behind us 100%, and people were sending money cheques and food baskets to our unions to tied us over.
After about three weeks, the NSW government were starting to get worried, power station stockpiles were getting low!! They were appealing to the public to conserve power.
After five weeks we were under threats of blackouts! The government made an offer to it's colliery employees, they refused, one out all out was the way!!
The government then ordered the Coal Industry Tribunal to meet and sort this mess out yesterday not tomorrow. The Judge in charge took a visit underground at a colliery to see what conditions were like himself, he convened the tribunal, and ordered the employers to enact the governments offer at every pit, he also gave us an interim new bonus scheme to be implemented right away, then ordered us back to work on the first available shift beginning the next week.
As this was a legal order, both we and the employers had to obey that order.
After about two weeks we had a new contract, two extra weeks leave, five extra sick days a year, and a pay rise that gave us around 60 bucks a week, plus a very good bonus scheme, work overalls and two pair of work boots a year, there were other things, but it was a long time back now, around 1981.
BUT, one didn't try and scab in Oz at that time, it's not unusual for scabs to get murdered, at least back then.
I'm sure a few years later I read of a scab "falling" under a train during a dispute.
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Post by spanker on Nov 27, 2011 17:21:59 GMT -5
John unfortunately we had our days in the 70s where we won our demands i have no need to go on about the 84/85 strike as you and others on this forum are well aware of what we achieved/did not, i was one of the year longers and picketed every day in all weathers ,as the years have gone by i no longer class the lads who went to work as scabs but i did leave the village mentality behind years ago and went onto a private estate where people have grass to mow and baskets to tend albeit not the acres you have seems that down under in the 80s you received/ fought for a very good package (Well done comrade) power to the people.
Very shortly we have a film being released about the life of Maggie Thatcher acted by Meryl Streep, 'The Iron Lady' it reads in todays mail as oscar winning and will go down well in the states as did The Queen.
Don't think it will get the same reviews from the ex British mining families do you ?
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