ken
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Post by ken on Dec 6, 2010 4:36:31 GMT -5
An update on this mine explosion.
The mine is situated on the West Coast of the South Ialand near Greymouth. The explosion caused the death of 29 men. Two men were in the access tunnel when it happened and were injured but managed to escape.
The mine has an unusual layout. The coal seam is under a National Park and access was limited. A 2Km tunnel was driven from outside the park to reach the seam and a shaft from there to the surface in the park for ventilation.
Before rescue staff could enter the mine to search for survivors a second explosion occurred which removed any hope for survivors.
There have now been 4 explosions and the mine is on fire. A GAG has been brought in from Australia. This is a modified jet engine which blows it's exhaust gas into the access tunnel so the the workings will fill with carbon dixide. Water is sprayed into the exhaust to reduce the temperature. It has been running several days now with limited success. It may be weeks before the bodies can be retrieved.
On the other side of the island where we live we have had a 7.1 earthquake with 3.600 aftershocks and continuing. Our house is condemned and has to come down, but we can live in it in the meantime. We are insured.
Ken
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Post by John on Dec 6, 2010 8:20:01 GMT -5
From the stories I've been reading in the Sydney Herald and NZ media, it sounds like the seam is now on fire. If so that could take ages to extinguish if at all.
Our thoughts and prayers are with the relatives and friends of the lost miners.
Sorry to hear you had structural damage from an earthquake Ken, I lived in California for a few years and know just how scary they are. I now live "TOO" near the New Madrid fault line in southern Missouri.
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Post by shropshirebloke on Dec 12, 2010 10:18:01 GMT -5
I must admit to being shocked as I've found out more about the disaster.
No second means of egress - the ventilation shaft was just that, with no winding gear or even road access to the shaft top, which means that the only way in or out was via a single 2.3 Km drift, that was also the return airway.
The ventilation fan was sited 100m inbye, so couldn't be accessed after the initial explosion.
New Zealand repealed its Coal Mines Act in 1992, and at the same time got rid of the Mines Inspectorate.
I've also read, though it seems unlikely given repeated reports of the methane range having been ruptured, that there was no requirement for advance boring for methane drainage.
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Post by John on Dec 12, 2010 14:14:49 GMT -5
I must admit to being shocked as I've found out more about the disaster. No second means of egress - the ventilation shaft was just that, with no winding gear or even road access to the shaft top, which means that the only way in or out was via a single 2.3 Km drift, that was also the return airway. The ventilation fan was sited 100m inbye, so couldn't be accessed after the initial explosion. New Zealand repealed its Coal Mines Act in 1992, and at the same time got rid of the Mines Inspectorate. I've also read, though it seems unlikely given repeated reports of the methane range having been ruptured, that there was no requirement for advance boring for methane drainage. If that's true, they've thrown away everything we have learned in the last couple of hundred years. |
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Post by shropshirebloke on Dec 12, 2010 14:22:42 GMT -5
That was pretty much what the bloke was saying on the NZ forum.
PS - except for the methane drainage bit the rest has been plastered all over the web.
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ken
Trainee
Posts: 46
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Post by ken on Dec 12, 2010 15:16:22 GMT -5
The latest news is that they have "capped" the ventilation shaft with a steel plate and have poured concrete on top of that. It looks to me as if they are trying to make it explosion proof rather than air tight. Surely they should have made the cap of lightweight materials which will disintegrate easily rather than broken concrete which will become missiles. This cap would also direct the force of an explosion towards the entrance tunnel where men could be working.
The use of the GAG machine seems to me to be of limited use because although it puts a lot of carbon dioxide into the mine there will still be a lot of oxygen left in the exhaust gas which would allow smoldering to go on for ever.
Ken
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Post by dazbt on Dec 12, 2010 16:28:11 GMT -5
I have tried to watch the reports of this 'incident' as closely as I can, as I am sure we all have. The original mine design proposal was to incorporate 4 seperate escape shafts, initial reports were that the two who 'escaped' the first blast did so by climbing up one such escape shaft. On a personal disclaimer point I can't verify these as facts of course  but I can provide links to internet reports where they are published. |
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Post by John on Dec 13, 2010 13:27:40 GMT -5
I must admit to being shocked as I've found out more about the disaster. No second means of egress - the ventilation shaft was just that, with no winding gear or even road access to the shaft top, which means that the only way in or out was via a single 2.3 Km drift, that was also the return airway. The ventilation fan was sited 100m inbye, so couldn't be accessed after the initial explosion. New Zealand repealed its Coal Mines Act in 1992, and at the same time got rid of the Mines Inspectorate. I've also read, though it seems unlikely given repeated reports of the methane range having been ruptured, that there was no requirement for advance boring for methane drainage. I found a very damning journalistic article this morning while searching on this topic. Seems what you posted is correct, at least I found evidence the NZ Government removed inspections as they no longer have a mines Inspectorate or any mines Inspectors. Seems a very odd state of affairs having a mining industry and no highly skilled department to oversee it. |
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Post by dazbt on Dec 13, 2010 14:11:50 GMT -5
I must admit to being shocked as I've found out more about the disaster. No second means of egress - the ventilation shaft was just that, with no winding gear or even road access to the shaft top, which means that the only way in or out was via a single 2.3 Km drift, that was also the return airway. The ventilation fan was sited 100m inbye, so couldn't be accessed after the initial explosion. New Zealand repealed its Coal Mines Act in 1992, and at the same time got rid of the Mines Inspectorate. I've also read, though it seems unlikely given repeated reports of the methane range having been ruptured, that there was no requirement for advance boring for methane drainage. I found a very damning journalistic article this morning while searching on this topic. Seems what you posted is correct, at least I found evidence the NZ Government removed inspections as they no longer have a mines Inspectorate or any mines Inspectors. Seems a very odd state of affairs having a mining industry and no highly skilled department to oversee it. So, are you also saying that there was no secondary egress J? |
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Post by John on Dec 13, 2010 14:56:15 GMT -5
I found a very damning journalistic article this morning while searching on this topic. Seems what you posted is correct, at least I found evidence the NZ Government removed inspections as they no longer have a mines Inspectorate or any mines Inspectors. Seems a very odd state of affairs having a mining industry and no highly skilled department to oversee it. So, are you also saying that there was no secondary egress J? I'm saying I found a very damning journalistic article on a NZ site with reference to the fact the NZ government did away with the Mines Inspectorate. And I'm saying it's an odd state of affairs that a country with operating mines has no Inspectors or a dept that looks after mineworkers safety. I've not found any other articles as yet relating to the mine in question, when I have I'll comment. But it seems that what Shropshirebloke posted seems to have some credibility regarding the mine in question. I would expect all the facts will come out in the Royal Inquiry into the "accident". AND, if what Shropshirebloke has posted holds water, it will be a sad indictment on the people of New Zealand to have let those lads die such a horrible death and deprive their families of Husbands, Fathers, Sons and Brothers to save a few quid in the annual NZ budget. |
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Post by dazbt on Dec 13, 2010 15:23:39 GMT -5
So, are you also saying that there was no secondary egress J? I'm saying I found a very damning journalistic article on a NZ site with reference to the fact the NZ government did away with the Mines Inspectorate. And I'm saying it's an odd state of affairs that a country with operating mines has no Inspectors or a dept that looks after mineworkers safety. I've not found any other articles as yet relating to the mine in question, when I have I'll comment. But it seems that what Shropshirebloke posted seems to have some credibility regarding the mine in question. I would expect all the facts will come out in the Royal Inquiry into the "accident". AND, if what Shropshirebloke has posted holds water, it will be a sad indictment on the people of New Zealand to have let those lads die such a horrible death and deprive their families of Husbands, Fathers, Sons and Brothers to save a few quid in the annual NZ budget. Stay calm J, I was only asking if you'd found confirmation that there was no second egress ............ I'm beginning to get paranoid about posting owt on here lately. |
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Post by John on Dec 13, 2010 17:11:01 GMT -5
No mate, that's all I found out earlier, haven't done anymore searching yet to see what I could turn up. Still seems odd a country would leave it's miners to the perils of private mining companies.
The only two entrances to that mine, from all reports are the main portal, which was the main intake, and the shaft. Which in my books couldn't be considered a 2nd egress under either of the laws I worked under. ie M&Q Act of the UK and the Coal Mines Regulation Act of NSW.
Both pits I worked at in NSW had two means of egress plus the ventilation shaft if things worked out badly.
In fact we had to have a 2nd means of egress for emergencies underground and the law required management to allow everyone to walk it if they so desired, once per month with the outbye Deputy. It was generally part of the main returns to the drift bottom from the districts.
I'll post anything I find while searching.
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Post by shropshirebloke on Dec 13, 2010 18:32:09 GMT -5
This tvnz.co.nz/sunday-news/pit-face-3945350/video interview was shown on NZ TV last night (Sunday). He confirms what has already been said elsewhere - the management couldn't even be certain who was in the mine at any given time, as they were responsible for putting their own checks back on the board, hence the early reports of several more men being trapped. The two men who escaped walked out via the drift, not through a separate escape shaft. The ventilation shaft was not an escape shaft - it had no winder, or even any means of installing one in an emergency, as it could only be reached either on foot via forest paths or by helicopter. It was only finally capped this Sunday as bad weather had prevented helicopters flying in the area for the last few days. This layout was at the insistence of the NZ Department of Conservation as the working area of the mine lay under a national park. Daz has mentioned that the original plans included four escape shafts - they may well have done but they're not shown in any plans I can find, including those published by the company. There's quite a bit more to be found on the NZ Herald newspaper web site - including the latest news that the company has now gone into receivership and that the remaining workforce are to be made redundant at the end of the month, rather than being paid until at least mid-January as was originally promised. The details of the Memorial Service are also rather upsetting, with the platform filled with politicians and company reps; but relatives, friends and workmates left to sit in the crowd and not allowed to speak. |
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Post by John on Dec 14, 2010 7:46:40 GMT -5
The company is in receivership right now, all employees are to be made redundant.
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Post by andyexplorer on Jan 12, 2011 7:45:11 GMT -5
Frist i will make clear i am not a miner
on the Pike River mine explosion :
If it had happened in Britain would mine rescue have gone in straight after the initial explosion ? i have read a lot about mining disasters in this country the famous and not so famous but what occurs to me is the incredible bond between underground workers that when a pit "Fired"miners at surrounding pit's would down tools and rush to aid their injured and trapped colleagues in most cases putting their own lives in danger and in some cases losing them
I know health and safty has gone mad over the years but was a window of oppotunity missed ? and would things have been handled differently if they had people who knew about mines and mining incharge instead of the police ?
i am not in a position to critisise anyone i am just asking the question of people who know !
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Post by John on Jan 12, 2011 8:45:47 GMT -5
In a dangerous situation, ie a fire or explosion or major fall of roof, the senior mining official will call out the Manager who takes the decision to operate his mines emergency plan.
In the case of a fire that has got out of hand or an explosion he will give permission to call the rescue station.
Anything else, he will go to his pit and assess the situation first.
The emergency plan will entail telephoning the rescue station, District Mines Inspector, local hospital, area NCB Medical Officer, Police, Mine Electrical and Mechanical Engineers, Under Manager in Charge.
On arrival by the mines rescue, the Captain will go to the office assigned as an emergency room where mine plans will be available to him, marked out with the area in question. Usually about this time, both the Mine Manager and Inspector will have arrived, and hopefully the mine will have been evacuated and a role call will have been carried out by one of the senior mine officials.
Anyone unaccounted for will be known and where they were working.
ALL decisions will now be made by and under the directions of the District Mines Inspector, only if he allows it, will the rescue team proceed underground.
He will be a very experienced man, holding a class 1 certificate of competency, (Mine Manager's ticket) and many years of practical experience.
My guess, reading the newspaper reports, he would not have allowed the rescue team to proceed underground due to the danger of a gas explosion.
During the Creswell disaster in the early 1950's, the Inspector wouldn't allow anyone to go into the returns to search for anyone. They ended up sealing the district up to starve the fire of oxygen. 80 men lost their lives in that fire.
The only use of police would be to keep order at the colliery entrance and under the supervision of the Colliery Manager and Mines Inspector.
Over here stateside, the government district Inspector takes full charge during a mine disaster.
In NSW Australia, it's similar to the UK system, Manager and Inspector are in charge.
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Post by andyexplorer on Jan 12, 2011 9:25:41 GMT -5
Thanks for that John !
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Post by andyexplorer on Jan 16, 2011 4:41:57 GMT -5
I have just checked out the situation at pike river and it is bad news
the retrieval opperation is winding down and the mine is to be sealed !
dispite the plea's of the relatives the Austrailian and New Zealand mine rescue teams have refused to enter the mine
The gag machine will be returned to Austrailia on 25/1/11 and the mine passed over to the recievers The relatives want more time so they can appoint a mining expert to see if anything else can be done
but it does not look promising
God bless them all !
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Post by andyexplorer on Mar 13, 2011 4:07:14 GMT -5
I have just checked the situation at pike river
price waterhouse cooper now control the mine and have put it up for sale
there are at least ten companies interested in re-opening it
the bodies may not be recovered before coal starts being mined again
but i believe this is not un -common and has happened before ?
the families have each recieved $190,000 compensation from the fund set up by the mayor
with a further $15,000 per child
a camera carrying robot was suposed to be sent into the mine last week but there is no report on wether they sent it in
the recievers have set aside $5,000,000 for continuing to stabilize the mine
and that is about it for now !
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Post by philford734 on Mar 13, 2011 8:48:13 GMT -5
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Post by philford734 on Jun 27, 2011 16:36:36 GMT -5
Work is starting today 27th June 2011 to recover the men out of Pike River Mine. Not the most peasant of jobs. I hope that the rescue teams doing the work come out safely. After the recovery of the bodies there remit is to leave the Mine in good condition to sell it.
It will be a sad day for all the relatives of the lost men but at least they will be able to bury them with the dignity they deserve. God bless them all.
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Post by dazbt on Jul 8, 2011 2:14:50 GMT -5
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ken
Trainee
Posts: 46
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Post by ken on Jul 25, 2011 0:04:44 GMT -5
The inquiry is proceeding. I just found out that the ventilating shaft had an escape ladder. However the shaft is 100 meters deep and the ladder had no rest stages. I think the law requires them at a maximum space of 9 meters. How would you like to climb a that ladder in good health and fitness never mind injured?
Ken
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Post by John on Jul 25, 2011 6:39:38 GMT -5
The inquiry is proceeding. I just found out that the ventilating shaft had an escape ladder. However the shaft is 100 meters deep and the ladder had no rest stages. I think the law requires them at a maximum space of 9 meters. How would you like to climb a that ladder in good health and fitness never mind injured? Ken Walking up a long steep intake drift was hard enough in my 30's, up vertical ladders with no rest stagings would have been murder. |
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Post by shropshirebloke on Jul 25, 2011 7:25:17 GMT -5
The inquiry is proceeding. I just found out that the ventilating shaft had an escape ladder. However the shaft is 100 meters deep and the ladder had no rest stages. I think the law requires them at a maximum space of 9 meters. How would you like to climb a that ladder in good health and fitness never mind injured? Ken ...and wearing a self-rescuer? |
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Post by John on Jul 25, 2011 8:46:23 GMT -5
The inquiry is proceeding. I just found out that the ventilating shaft had an escape ladder. However the shaft is 100 meters deep and the ladder had no rest stages. I think the law requires them at a maximum space of 9 meters. How would you like to climb a that ladder in good health and fitness never mind injured? Ken ...and wearing a self-rescuer? That would be impossible with a standard self rescuer, the higher the CO level and more work expended, the hotter the rescuer becomes. It would get so hot that it would severely burn the lips and mouth. Plus, the higher the CO levels the shorter the life of the rescuer, ie the 90 minute unit wouldn't last much more than 30 minutes in the highest levels of CO. Besides, nobody would have been able to use the shaft at Pike River unless they were wearing an asbestos suit!! The videos clearly showed flames from the shaft of methane burning. Fairly obvious, poor planning went into that mine with not having a second means of egress in fresh air. They need to study NSW coal mine rules! |
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Post by shropshirebloke on Jul 25, 2011 11:27:19 GMT -5
...and wearing a self-rescuer? That would be impossible with a standard self rescuer, the higher the CO level and more work expended, the hotter the rescuer becomes. It would get so hot that it would severely burn the lips and mouth. Plus, the higher the CO levels the shorter the life of the rescuer, ie the 90 minute unit wouldn't last much more than 30 minutes in the highest levels of CO. My point exactly John - the MSA type we used to use work by exposing CO laden air to a catalyst (hopcalite) which used atmospheric oxygen to convert CO to the far less dangerous CO2. It depends on there still being sufficient oxygen in the air to support respiration and feed the reaction in the rescuer. They may have had the more modern type of rescuers that incorporate a limited oxygen supply, but I can't see them being adequate for an escape of this nature. Then, as you mentioned, they were still faced with climbing what was effectively a furnace flue. Sadly it looks as though NZ miners are the victims of the worldwide rush to "deregulation". |
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Post by John on Jul 25, 2011 13:12:48 GMT -5
I've heard they are deregulating the Australian coal industry too.
Ironic, as in 1979 they had the Appin disaster, that happened at Appin Colliery in NSW.
After the inquiry, which had just finished when I moved there from the UK, it came out the industry needed the Coal Mines Regulation Act completely overhauling. The last time that was done was 1913 with new legislation adding periodically.
The new Act came into being in 1984, electricians and mechanics from a certain date after the introduction had to have mining certification, but on the whole, it was just an updated version of the old rules.
It took many years and hundreds of thousand lives to formulate the old M&Q Act, same with the NSW CMRA which was based on the 1904 M&Q Act amended.
Now they seem to want to throw a few hundred years of common sense out the window for profit.
Even though it's a proven fact, a safe mine is a highly productive mine. Even the old coal owners found that one out eventually.
One can't get the best out of men who are worried all the time about roof conditions, gas problems or outbursts of gas.
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Post by shropshirebloke on Jul 25, 2011 14:04:56 GMT -5
Now they seem to want to throw a few hundred years of common sense out the window for profit. Even though it's a proven fact, a safe mine is a highly productive mine. Even the old coal owners found that one out eventually. Got it in one John - the trouble is that given the lunacy of international finance it can "make sense" to ruin a long-term asset for short-term profit - and money hasn't got a conscience, or most of the people who own most of it. I'm a partner in a small printing business - a sector that has a disproportionately high accident rate. We are obsessive about safety - because the people most at risk are the owners of the business - US, followed by our customers and other visitors, many of whom are or become close friends. I love my job, but I'm even fonder of my life and that of people I care about - luckily I haven't some bunch of ***kers in a boardroom telling me what to do (and I'll never be rich but what the ****?). |
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Post by John on Jul 25, 2011 14:19:49 GMT -5
As an ex pit electrician with many years of experience under my belt, I used to balance safety with common sense.
Several instances come to mind, both in coal and hard rock. I'd got the whole belt system standing because a signal cable had got damaged by a lump of rock falling off a belt. It was the one between the two 1000 tonne bins, No 1 bin was full. Very dusty around the tops of the bins and it was hard to see anything. I was requested to short the signals out until I'd installed a new cable, I refused point blank, had it not been so dusty I'd have gone along with it for around the half an hour it took me to change out the cable.
Allowing a face to operate when the methane detection equipment had failed in direct conflict with the rules.....I threatened to walk off the job if my leading hand had carried out that instruction, as I'd point blank refused, I also told the shift U/M I'd be straight on the phone outside to the Manager, Elec Engineer and District Mines Inspector. Sure I was losing bonus too, but in this case safety was paramount.
There were other cases, I've "bent the rules" where it's been safe to do so..
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