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Post by John on Jun 6, 2010 7:49:12 GMT -5
Does anyone recall a maximum winding speed laid down by the M&Q Act?? 28ft per sec seems to ring a bell for man riding speeds in shafts.
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Post by dazbt on Jun 7, 2010 2:53:07 GMT -5
Does anyone recall a maximum winding speed laid down by the M&Q Act?? 28ft per sec seems to ring a bell for man riding speeds in shafts. I can't remember that, but I think I do remember that a cage should not be allowed to 'land' travelling at a speed greater than 5' per second .................. just about fast enough to bring you to your knees and push your shoulders up level with your ears.  |
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Post by John on Jun 7, 2010 6:13:14 GMT -5
I did a little reading about an accident involving a serious overwind in 1958. Doesn't look like there is/was a max speed.
Once past mid point in the shaft the safety devices built into the Lilley Controller are set in motion and once within the slow banking area, coming towards "landing" if the winder hasn't slowed to a certain speed, power is tripped and brakes dropped on.
Seems in the overwind and rope detaching in the accident, there was an error on the lilley controller, problem with a valve on the steam winder and somewhat lack of maintenance on the Jack catches in the headframe.
Seems we owe more than I thought to the Lilley controller.
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Post by philipford734 on Jul 6, 2010 4:29:23 GMT -5
I have just been reading about Bradford Colliery Manchester. They modernised and installed a Coepie winder with 12 ton skips. The artical states that it they wound up from the 900yd level to the surface in 97 seconds.
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Post by John on Jul 6, 2010 6:44:15 GMT -5
I timed the winder in the No1 shaft at Boulby Mine, 2.5 minutes from loading the skip to discharging at surface, Not bad to say its a 3/4 mile deep shaft! Never worked out the speed, but had to be around 30mph through pit bottom, which was 30 feet above the weighing flasks. And fully automated winding, the engineman would monitor the first wind, and if all was OK, he'd switch over to automatic.
I was the electrician in charge of shafts and central ore handling on my shift. I wasn't allowed to work on the engines, my area finished at the discharge chutes in the head tower. I used to monitor any repair I'd carried out from the winding enginemans cabin though. A very impressive set up!!
7500HP Blair style winder, all DC and thyristor controlled.
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Post by philipford734 on Jul 6, 2010 12:42:34 GMT -5
I worked out the Bradford Colliery skip winding speed as 28ft per second.  |
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Post by dazbt on Jul 6, 2010 13:42:56 GMT -5
I worked out the Bradford Colliery skip winding speed as 28ft per second. That's around 19mph Philip which doesn't seem all that quick, same as John I can remember discussing shaft speeds at college but not the actual numbers involved, I thought (without being able to validate why), rightly or wrongly that 30mph would have been possible. My remnants of memory are trying to assure me that the M&Q landing speed maximum was 5'/min. The old steam winders, from memory, seemed to put the cage into close to free fall speed, obviously it couldn't have been that against the rising cage but I do know that The Prince of Wales Colliery (Pontefract) wound coal at speeds in excess of 150,000mph, having traveled out that pit, illegally between shifts on one occasion whilst laid on the top of a mine car full of muck, never again!! |
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Post by John on Jul 6, 2010 14:54:26 GMT -5
I worked out the Bradford Colliery skip winding speed as 28ft per second. That's around 19mph Philip which doesn't seem all that quick, same as John I can remember discussing shaft speeds at college but not the actual numbers involved, I thought (without being able to validate why), rightly or wrongly that 30mph would have been possible. My remnants of memory are trying to assure me that the M&Q landing speed maximum was 5'/min. The old steam winders, from memory, seemed to put the cage into close to free fall speed, obviously it couldn't have been that against the rising cage but I do know that The Prince of Wales Colliery (Pontefract) wound coal at speeds in excess of 150,000mph, having traveled out that pit, illegally between shifts on one occasion whilst laid on the top of a mine car full of muck, never again!! Scary.. ;D ;D Never rode at mineral speed, but have caught an early ride on the 9 man deck under the skip a fair few times with 20 tonnes above my head. Also had to ride same when had problems on the other shaft, ie gate interlocks playing up. Worked it out, Boulby rock winding speed was around 26.4ft per sec. which works out at 18mph even though it looked like it was passing pit bottom at 30mph. Modern lifts in buildings travel at far faster speeds. I think we did travel a fair bit faster on steam winders though, once past slow banking. I know Cotgrave was three times deeper, shaft wise than Clifton, but always recall it took forever to get to pit bottom, and coming out at the end of the shift, we would have had time for three games of darts had we had the room! Couldn't have got to onset at Clifton any faster had I jumped down the shaft! Clifton had steam winders, Cotgrave had tower mounted Koepe winders. |
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Post by Wheldale on Jul 7, 2010 16:06:37 GMT -5
I know this doesnt help for UK speeds, but when I was doing my Onsetter training in South Africa I had to spend a shift with the winder. Men travelled at 15m/sec, materials travelled at 7.5m/sec. I clearly remember the winder showing me how to change the speed of the wind from 15m/sec to 7.5m/sec back to 15m/sec. This was in a 2000m deep shaft. The lads in the cage must have wondered what was going on!!
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Post by dazbt on Jul 7, 2010 18:36:14 GMT -5
I know this doesnt help for UK speeds, but when I was doing my Onsetter training in South Africa I had to spend a shift with the winder. Men travelled at 15m/sec, materials travelled at 7.5m/sec. I clearly remember the winder showing me how to change the speed of the wind from 15m/sec to 7.5m/sec back to 15m/sec. This was in a 2000m deep shaft. The lads in the cage must have wondered what was going on!! 15m/sec = 33.5mph 7.5m/sec = 16.77mph now those sound like more economical speeds, are they the right way round though? ................... the mineral/coaling speed in the UK was always the fastest, maybe the depth and capacity reversed that principle in South Africa. |
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Post by John on Jul 8, 2010 7:34:42 GMT -5
I'd say a slip up Daz, I spotted that too.
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Post by Wheldale on Jul 8, 2010 12:27:32 GMT -5
Thinking more on the subject (as I had a few beers last night!) Men travelled at 15m/sec. On the materials side it was rails and pipes that was wound at 7.5m/sec (there was a danger of these items swinging into the shaft work. Not sure about rock speeds.
Had one incident when I worked at West Driefontein Gold mine were a loco was being wound up the shaft and the engine fell out! That caused a few problems!!
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Post by Wheldale on Jul 10, 2010 4:10:51 GMT -5
I also remember now that the skips on Leeudoorn Gold mine (were I did my onsetter training) travelled at 20m/min these were 20 tonne skips. A 3 deck cage of 150 men would travel the 2000m deep shaft in 2 minutes.
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Post by dazbt on Jul 10, 2010 10:39:29 GMT -5
My head is starting to hurt, I must find something stronger than these Junior Asprin;
by taking the long-way round, in order to better visualise the speed in mph;
20m/min = 0.74mph
so, if 2000 mtrs = 1.24 miles then it would take 1hr 36min to travel 2,000 mtrs.
If 20m/s = 44.73mph then it would take 1min 39secs to travel 2,000 mtrs.
I think that I would have settled for the 20m/min ride in and preferred the 20m/s for riding out.
(not sure about the maths by the way, I've lost four red beads off the abacus)
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Post by John on Jul 10, 2010 11:02:00 GMT -5
I just corrected this poster on another forum..."Hi, In Cwm, Beddau the shafts were around 2250 feet deep. The downcast shaft wound men at around 14mph which is around 1.8 ft/sec. This was a bit faster for supplies etc. going down or when the winder knew you were going down on the afternoon shift for maintenance when he gave you a ride you had to pay for in Porthcawl. The skip winder was a different beast. This wound the shaft in 72 secs including slowing to come to the bank. The skip rocketed through the pit at around 26mph on the coal shift. I was an apprentice fitter at the pit and sometimes used the skip to sneek up the pit. It was automatic at pit bottom so no hitcher there. There was a small man riding area underneath the corner of the skip. We used to jump in when the skip landed and jump out at the top . You only had a few seconds, if you messed it up you were on your way back down. Interlocked gates were eventually fitted to stop this. Reply Quote Report" To this.... 1.8ft/sec=14mph?  We used to sling heavy loads at 1.5ft per sec, which took nearly 8 hours from bank to onset. 60 tonne loads.(Slowest speed the winder could do) I think you made a slip up t'owd lad. 1.8ftper sec=1.2mph. Pretty easy to make mistakes when one keeps jumping from Ft/Sec, and Metres per minute. ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Post by Wheldale on Jul 10, 2010 12:03:46 GMT -5
Sorry made a mistake on the earlier post!! Dazbt picked up on it! The skips travelled at 20 meters per second! Sorry people, i keep tripping up on these! ;D
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Post by John on Jul 10, 2010 14:34:15 GMT -5
Sorry made a mistake on the earlier post!! Dazbt picked up on it! The skips travelled at 20 meters per second! Sorry people, i keep tripping up on these! ;D Wow!! That is fast, about 65ft per sec!! |
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Post by holty on Jan 6, 2011 16:10:48 GMT -5
Thorne Colliery was 40 ft a second man riding and 50ft a second materials.
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Post by kennygeorge on Feb 15, 2012 5:34:36 GMT -5
Typical winding speeds in south Wales were 25 feet per second, minerals were some what higher.
At Brynlliw we used to wind men at 28 ft/ sec and minerals at 42 ft/ sec.
However post Markham that was reduced to 25 ft/sec,
Mineral speed was not changed .
Our shaft two which was skip winding, was 33 ft/ sec But when we converted the one skip for man riding which could only accommodate 7 men we self imposed a speed of 12 ft/ sec because the clearance between the skips mid shaft was a massive 3 1/4 inches !
Regards Ken
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Post by anthonygos on Apr 18, 2012 17:39:47 GMT -5
Good to know you are still about Ken, best regards. Anthony
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Post by johnnyfitter on Jan 16, 2015 17:11:41 GMT -5
I worked at Rossington Colliery where my Dad was a winder. He started there in 1957, and he wound there until his retirement on Electric Ground Mounted Friction winders in 1981. He worked at No.1 Shaft, which was equipped with a Markhams Steam Winding Engine. It had 44" dia cylinders, and worked on a steam pressure of 160 lbf/ sqr in. When winding coal it used to complete 44 draws of coal per hour. The shaft was almost 1/2 mile deep, so the average speed including decking time is 22 (ish) mph, however at mid shaft full speed the 40; dia drum was making 1 rev/sec. That means we have a mid shaft speed of some 125 fps or circa 85 mph. The rope speed indicator at mid shaft speed in coal showed approximately 120 fps. It was a sight to see when winding coal!!!!! The new electic winders had a mid shaft speed of 44 fps when I was there.
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Post by quimbyj1745 on Jan 24, 2015 5:54:00 GMT -5
I was in charge on nightshift at Coventry in 1964 when the winders were still steam powered. The engines were built by Markam and were fitted with Bi cylindrical conical drums. The shaft was 612 yards deep, (1836ft). They were regularly doing 63 winds per hour. 12 secs decking 47 secs winding. the engine men told me that mid shaft speeds of 88ft/sec were achievable, 30ft/sec manriding speed.
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