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Post by dazbt on May 13, 2010 14:24:49 GMT -5
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Post by John on May 13, 2010 21:15:11 GMT -5
Makes one wonder how safe the old rescuers were Daz!! I've weighed and signed for those in Australia. All one can do with those is a visual examination and weigh them, compare the weight with past records taken monthly and if there's more than a few grams increase take them out of service and issue a new rescuer. |
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Post by philipford on May 27, 2010 14:03:46 GMT -5
The one that I used when I was caught inbye of a conveyor belt fire in 1968 worked ok. Very hot just like the instructors had told us.
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Post by John on May 27, 2010 14:55:30 GMT -5
The one that I used when I was caught inbye of a conveyor belt fire in 1968 worked ok. Very hot just like the instructors had told us. The problems are with the self contained SR's, they have oxygen generators instead of the chemical type we used that converted CO to CO2. As luck had it, I never "cracked" one open ever. |
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Post by dazbt on May 27, 2010 15:52:33 GMT -5
“US mines face shortage of emergency air packs” …………. www.guardian.co.uk/world/feedarticle/9098286Is it just me that’s going mad, or am I reading this completely wrong? The facts are that CSE manufactured Self Rescuers are at last officially recognised as being faulty, it is now admitted that at least 16% are not fit for purpose, useless, unreliable, don’t work, worse than dangerous, they just don’t start and function as they should do, in fact fail in exactly the same way as described by Randall McCloy the sole survivor of the Sago disaster when he gave testimony of his experience some four years ago, the Self Rescuer manufacturers, the US government and coal industry at the time didn’t just pooh - pooh the evidence, they supposedly proved that all the Self Rescuer units involved in the Sago disaster had been working efficiently. Worse still was the fact that both earlier and later claims that there had been multiple experiences of these units not functioning properly were dismissed as being proved inaccurate. So what is the response ………… stop the supply of further CSE Rescuer units and then sit and scream about the fact that future failure to supply a growing need for extra units will perhaps affect a growing production requirement ………. no mention of the fact that meantime perhaps 50% of US coalminers are being sent underground on a daily basis compulsorily carrying a Self Rescuer unit that is well likely to be of no use at all in the event of a fire or the aftermath of such, to me a bit like sending troops up to the frontline with replica guns carved out of balsa wood. What a load of “Gattox”, surely if the ‘Powers That Be’ define that the carrying of a Self Rescuer is essential then, that same Authority is duty bound to ensure that no coalminer is sent underground to run the lottery of carrying or having access to a Self Rescuer that does exactly what the unit’s descriptive title states that it does, not working in the hope of having access to one of the 84% that might save his life. I’m probably wrong in thinking this way, but if I was told that going on holiday to Spain meant travelling on an aeroplane that had a 16% chance of catastrophic failure mid flight, I think I might seriously consider taking my holidays at Langold Park Lido. Feel free to delete this post if it is thought that it might cause offence or otherwise be a problem,  
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Post by John on May 27, 2010 17:34:25 GMT -5
The truth doesn't offend me Daz, no, your opinions are valued as are all members opinions, I feel as strong as you do about safety.
I was always outspoken when working in mining, both in the UK and in Australia. Safety was my No1 point.
The US mineworkers union feels just as strongly as you do if you check their webpage.
IMHO I feel that all mine operations should cease until the issue with the SCSR is resolved. Or at best, re-issue the old style SR, which has a proven track record.
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Post by dazbt on May 28, 2010 8:51:54 GMT -5
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Post by John on May 28, 2010 10:05:10 GMT -5
Makes me wonder how many involved with enforcing safety rules have ever worked in mining at all!
Maybe another "leaf" the legislators should take out the UK's and Australia's rules??? Mines Inspectors must have a Mine Managers certificate, engineers must have either the Elec or Mech Engineers tickets.
From what I read about the Inspectors, they must meet certain academic standards, take a course and pass the exams at the end of the course, then they appointed Inspectors.. Just not good enough!!
Can you recall some of the pompous HMI's of the 60's??? I used to keep well clear of them after I was given a rousting by one of them for not having the pull wire signals for the stage loader right up to the ripping lip.
I always kept it one ring back when there were rippers at the lip, when they fired the lip, it always cut the pullwire if it was right up to the last ring. He wouldn't wear it, "DO IT NOW" was his response.
I recall we used to get a day or two's notice HMI was to do his rounds, but we never knew where he was going to visit until he was underground, sure kept management and Deputy's on their toes!
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Post by erichall on Sept 27, 2010 6:44:14 GMT -5
Thinking back to my days with HMI's, the management as well as the men were always a little in awe of the Inspector and his powers. Even to the manager, the HMI's word was LAW. few dared to question him, since a good HMI knew all the tricks (he'd practised them himself). I found the only way to deal with Inspectors was to be truthful, and if he'd asked a question you couldn't answer, turn it round by saying 'I don't know. What would you do in my position?' I always found them to be fair if tough bosses, and you couldn't try the usual 'b=====t baffles brains' on them.
I often wondered why the HMI's often (though not always) gave advance warning of an impending visit, since you could often anticipate where he would go, and whilst accompanying one of the best HMI's (tough but fair) I asked him the question that everyone has asked. We had been on a visit to a district that had been stonedusted until it resembled a snowfall, especially for his visit. This was obvious. My question was, 'Tell me Mr *****, we anticipated your visit after you'd told us yesterday you were coming, and it must be obvious that the stonedusting etc, has obviously been done for your benefit. Why don't you pay surprise visits instead?' His reply astonished me, but on reflection, held a lot of sense. 'If I hadn't told you I was coming, it would be a mark of disrespect to your Manager, but, had I dropped in unexpected on this district, can you honestly say that all this stonedust would have been spread?'
My reply was to smile at him, and sa, 'Point taken'.
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Post by John on Sept 27, 2010 14:48:23 GMT -5
You were lucky in your area then Eric, all we knew was the Inspector was coming to the pit on a certain day, never knew where he was going until he was underground and had made a snap decision on the way inbye!!!
So all three districts plus developments were pretty well tidied up and stone dusted.
Wasn't long though before the "bush telegraph" was alive, phones ringing, "Inspector and Manager on his way up your main gate now!!
We'd had the warning and the M/G rippers decided to move the Crawley stage loader up. Those days it was moved by reversing the chain drive with two large sprags set to the rings and lodged on the flights!!
Inspectors nearly here I told them, We'll be done by the time he gets here said their chargehand..... Yeah right, they'd just started when HMI arrived!!! Jeeze was he mad when he saw them!! Stopped the job, took all their lamp numbers, "YOU, NUMBER!! Fined 100 pounds"!! All four got a hundred pound fine!! Switchman was warned as he'd allowed unauthorised persons to operate the stage loader, Deputy got his butt kicked, job was stopped for about an hour while HMI lectured the men and the Manager....
Once he'd gone it was back to normal.... ;D
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Post by John on Sept 27, 2010 14:55:25 GMT -5
That was the stiffest fine I ever saw handed out, back then in the mid 60's a fiver was the norm.
The blokes just shrugged it off, as they were on the old contracts and soon made it up with overtime and a few contracts through the coming weeks.
The rates then for craftsmen was 18 pound a week including face allowance, water money, shift allowance etc Most of the face crew were on over 50 pounds a week! It must have hurt them in the wallet when the new PLA came into affect, flat 25 quid a week!
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Post by dazbt on Apr 27, 2012 8:59:49 GMT -5
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rac
Shotfirer.
Posts: 87
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Post by rac on Apr 27, 2012 10:33:37 GMT -5
;D That was the stiffest fine I ever saw handed out, back then in the mid 60's a fiver was the norm.
The blokes just shrugged it off, as they were on the old contracts and soon made it up with overtime and a few contracts through the coming weeks.
The rates then for craftsmen was 18 pound a week including face allowance, water money, shift allowance etc Most of the face crew were on over 50 pounds a week! It must have hurt them in the wallet when the new PLA came into affect, flat 25 quid a week! not really to do with self rescuers john but reminded me of something in the 60's which used to happen at the 1st pit i worked at as an apprentice - oxcroft in north debys area and was a drift mine. the paddy was the correct way in and out the mine but people used to ride out up the coal belt up to the top of the intake drift.every now and again there would be a purge by the management to catch the riders this was in the form of the safety officer waiting at the appropriate time in the 1st manhole down the drift, his penalty was "you will be making a contribution of £5 to the st johns ambulance brigade WONT YOU!" (he was a bit st johns man) would'nt get that now you'd be on your bike. |
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