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Post by John on Sept 24, 2008 8:19:26 GMT -5
Clifton Colliery in Nottingham had older gear pre NCB specs and newer equipment.
We had a lot of Metropolitan Vickers, AEI, Belmos Peebles gear.
There were older Met Vick MDU range of gate end boxes, extremely simple circuitry, but reliable old workhorses!
More modern stuff were the Met Vick MCU range of NCB spec GEB's. The MCU152 geb's were pretty basic but did their job, the MCU153 were more complicated, but by todays standards just basic flameproof contactors with sequencing relays etc.
Last but not least were the last geb's we had delivered, Baldwin Francis SM2/2x, state of the art with sensitive earth leakage protection. It was this last innovation that made Met Vick drop out of the gate end box market. It appears the National Coal Board wanted SEL fitted to the MCU153 range of boxes under the existing contract and Met Vick refused. That left Wallacetown and Baldwin Francis as the only two makes available in NCB pits later down the line.
I recall the face signalling we used was just plain signal/lockout keys operating a simple relay circuit at the gate end, it had the usual signal bell. Face communications were via personal sound powered single piece handset with a "telephone" jackplug on the end of a coiled cable, these plugged into a jack on the side of the face lockout boxes. In the main gate was a valve, (vacuum tube) amplifier mounted in a flameproof container, I don't recall the make, probably Davis of Derby.
Next to replace that system was an integrated console and solid state circuitry. The 60's were an exciting time in mining elec technology!
Davis had their SIVAD system, but we had the new Winster "WICAS" system. Every seven yards along the face was a lockout/signal key and every fourth key was an amplifier box, ie it carried a microphone, amplifier and speakers, one each side of the box.
The console at the main gate had indication of where a lockout was operated, cable fault diagnosis, ie short, open, clear, lockout and pilot. Pre start alarm and audio communications built in.
Lighting underground was confined to conveyor transfer points, bunker sites, pit bottoms, stables, haulage engine stations, man riding stations and if locos were in use, charging, refueling stations.
Lighting was by flameproof incandescent light fittings ro flameproof fluorescent light fittings, makes were Belmos and Victor.
The whole length of the cable belt on the "Stonehead Drift" to pit bottom at Clifton was lit with fluorescent lights, 3/4 mile of it! Probably as the belt was classed as a manriding belt and the drift was also an endless rope haulage road for supplies.
Telephones were the FLP magneto type via a manual exchange on multi circuits around the pit. There were two 100 pair cables feeding the telephone circuits, the old run down 1's main road and the newer cable down 15's man rider road.
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Post by John on Sept 24, 2008 9:54:37 GMT -5
I was only at Cotgrave a few months after Clifton was closed, so don't remember a great deal about the pit.
Anyway, from what I recall, it had five faces, mostly installed with AB 16/200 shearers with a sumping shearer to elliminate the tail gate stablehole.
I think one face had a BJD Magnamatic, in fact I'm sure it did. We are talking 1968, so anyone who worked at Cotgrave at that time might confirm.
Face geb's wer Baldwin Francis SM2/2x's, all mounted on a monorail above the belt with the transformer inbye not far from the ripping lip! It had a heavy steel plate in front of it to protect it from shot firing!
This was due to the heavy floorlift that existed at Cotgrave.
Cotgrave also used Wallacetown (Whecol's) P50 gate end boxes too.
Not sure if they used the Davis of Derby "Sivad" system on the faces or Winster system, just too long ago, and like I mentioned, I was only there a few months.
The pit was layed out on three main roads, conveyor road, main loco road, 20 foot full circular rings, and the return road. The loco road was lit from one end to the other with flp fluorescent lights. I often wondered how one would get up there to change a tube!
Telephone system was automatic exchange, direct dial up.
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ken
Trainee
Posts: 46
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Post by ken on Feb 15, 2011 2:49:03 GMT -5
On the subject of old equipment, does anyone remember Leclanche cells. At Easington they were extensively used for signaling as they had long roadways, haulage and manriding. They were an open topped glass jar which held about a quart (if anyone can remember a quart) with a large porous pot in the middle and a zinc rod in one corner. I think the electrolite was sal ammoniac. The porous pot was carbon filled and slowly changed colour as the carbon was used up. They were 1.5 volts per cell and used in banks of 24 volts. There were banks of these back to back at the end of each section with relays to make the system work from the inbye end to the engine house.
If there was a fault developed someone had to go to the battery stations to pull out a zinc rod to stop the batteries going flat and it also gave an indication of which side the fault was . The signaling was galvenised open wire. On the manriding sets (just 10cwt coal tubs with a wooden floor) the runrider (man in charge) had a stick with a copper strip with notches cut into it fixed on top. If there was a problem he would jamb the comb up against the wires as hard as he could. It was not the most reliable form of signaling as the wires became coroded after years of not being used. This caused miners to make an instant decision whether to stay put or try to get out without being injured if there was a problem. Sometimes they made the wrong choice.
Ken
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Post by John on Feb 15, 2011 7:46:47 GMT -5
On the subject of old equipment, does anyone remember Leclanche cells. At Easington they were extensively used for signaling as they had long roadways, haulage and manriding. They were an open topped glass jar which held about a quart (if anyone can remember a quart) with a large porous pot in the middle and a zinc rod in one corner. I think the electrolite was sal ammoniac. The porous pot was carbon filled and slowly changed colour as the carbon was used up. They were 1.5 volts per cell and used in banks of 24 volts. There were banks of these back to back at the end of each section with relays to make the system work from the inbye end to the engine house. If there was a fault developed someone had to go to the battery stations to pull out a zinc rod to stop the batteries going flat and it also gave an indication of which side the fault was . The signaling was galvenised open wire. On the manriding sets (just 10cwt coal tubs with a wooden floor) the runrider (man in charge) had a stick with a copper strip with notches cut into it fixed on top. If there was a problem he would jamb the comb up against the wires as hard as he could. It was not the most reliable form of signaling as the wires became coroded after years of not being used. This caused miners to make an instant decision whether to stay put or try to get out without being injured if there was a problem. Sometimes they made the wrong choice. Ken Never saw "wet cells" in actual use, but recall seeing them at the training centre and being taught about them at Tech, as there were still a lot in use back then. My own pit didn't have any that I can recall, we did however have plenty of bare wire signals around the pit. The old manrider had just bare wire signals, and the guard had a "tee piece" to signal with. If memory isn't playing tricks with me, the old rope haulages in the returns had bare wire signals too, and we installed a bare wire signalling system on the new manrider as a back up to the highly inductive loop "radio" signalling system it employed, as we had so many teething problems at first. |
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Post by Sam from Kent on Feb 16, 2011 18:26:06 GMT -5
Do you remember the definitions of Intrinsically Safe Equipment which referred to "A 2pint porous pot leclanche cell" Don't know why, have always remembered that definition
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Post by John on Feb 16, 2011 18:59:26 GMT -5
Do you remember the definitions of Intrinsically Safe Equipment which referred to "A 2pint porous pot leclanche cell" Don't know why, have always remembered that definition I don't. no Sam, probably because I never worked with them in practice. I'd hazard a guess though, that they had a "high internal resistance" under load conditions, which would restrict current? I just cheated and looked it up, seems I'm right on the high internal resistance which renders them IS. |
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dean
Trainee
Posts: 6
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Post by dean on Feb 26, 2011 22:43:05 GMT -5
Hi John,
I can recall some of the equipment you mentioned.
Much of it was still in use in the1970's - 80's in old workings and used on haulages etc.
I can remember Davis of Derby R1 & R2 signalling systems, The R1,s were used on the Stage loaders with the R2's used for the AFC signalling system . Matlocks spaced along the face were utilised as the communication system.
Later this arrangement was superseded by SIVAD systems.
But it was common to use the D&D R1's for haulage signalling. Old GA8 and (NCB spec) SGA8 GEB's were also common on haulages.
One old GEB I came across, which was no longer in service actually had a valve, (vacuum tube) as the SEL amplifier, I have a feeling it was a Baldwin & Frances ?
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Post by John on Feb 27, 2011 7:11:17 GMT -5
That was the B&F SM2/2X that used thyratron control on the E/L circuit dean, the first sensitive E/L circuit!! It was replaced with solid state E/L , the first were so sensitive they tripped on none existant faults, all a megger showed was infinity. B&F redesigned the circuit and sent out a modification kit to the pits who had installed the new SM2/2X's
B&F were the Rolls Royces of GEB's!! One of the things I liked, apart from the quality, was if you'd worked on earlier B&F boxes, all you had to look for on the schematics was what they had added.
All pre existing relays were numbered the same for the same duty.
No other manufacturer did that, when they brought a new product out, all the relays were numbered differently.
I could also change an isolator in around half an hour on a B&F GEB, so easy to work on.
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dean
Trainee
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Post by dean on Feb 27, 2011 8:47:22 GMT -5
HI John , Thanks for the information The Colliery I worked at used mainly Wallis Town GEB's, but one face I was on for while had B&F SCB1100's yes I thought they were a great GEB too. I really liked the removable interchangeable suitcase control box concept. They were so easy too work on and configure even in master & slave setups. I still have the schematics for a SCB1100 + the brass test key, as they ended up emigrating to Australia in my tool box  Good souvenirs from the past |
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Post by John on Feb 27, 2011 14:08:10 GMT -5
HI John , Thanks for the information The Colliery I worked at used mainly Wallis Town GEB's, but one face I was on for while had B&F SCB1100's yes I thought they were a great GEB too. I really liked the removable interchangeable suitcase control box concept. They were so easy too work on and configure even in master & slave setups. I still have the schematics for a SCB1100 + the brass test key, as they ended up emigrating to Australia in my tool box Good souvenirs from the past I too still have a couple of B&F keys, plus a few Wecol keys. Last wecols I worked on were at Angus Place, they used A67 Vacutacs on the first longwalls, 1,2,3,4,5,6 and seven. I knew those GEB's inside out, all static controls and the dreaded Vacutac contactors!!!! Kerry, the engineer there once asked me how I'd got a reset key for them, as he hadn't issued me with one at that time, I said I've probably got more than you have!!! We used Wecol A67's and A69's at Boulby. |
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Post by John on Feb 28, 2011 10:36:27 GMT -5
I have my old "print" of the B&F SCB1 GEB dated 1962 and my hand written date of 2/2/1965!! It's a little the worse for wear, but still readable.
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dean
Trainee
Posts: 6
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Post by dean on Feb 28, 2011 18:30:03 GMT -5
John,
I can remember the Vacuum A67s , they used to have detection for vacuum tube failure. All the A67s were series interlocked back to the Section Switch pilot no volt circuit.
You now have me thinking how they achieved this? reactors\resistors on the secondary side on the vacuum tubes with voltage detection relays?
If the Vacuum tubes are meant to be open and you detect voltage - trip the Section Switch pilot circuit?
I will have to lookup the A67 schematics.
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Post by John on Feb 28, 2011 18:44:03 GMT -5
Wecols had three contactors available Dean, standard, their own Vacutacs and I think the other was GEC vacuum contactors. Both types of vacuum contactors had protection against vacuum loss.
The A67 was the standard type 2 GEB and the A69 had a contactor for a thruster. At Boulby we used the A69 as a master and the A67 as slaves on the main conveyors, all controlled by Huwood Mk1A control units.
CPL Ltd who ran Boulby, dropped the Vacutacs for standard contactors, less trouble with the ambient heat levels we had there.
As my website is rebuilt, I'll scan a copy of the A67 manual, I doubt copyright is an issue after all these years!! I'll also scan the SEL unit used in the Wecols back then.
I also have the P50 GEB manual, the 550 volt NCB spec GEB that Wecol made, I also have an old schematic of the P455 GEB.
You can find the website in the links section of this site, it's the first link.
The new rebuilt site has a long way to go before I replace the old material.
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