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Post by John on Jul 23, 2008 15:20:31 GMT -5
Coal mines present hazards not found in hard rock mines, namely dangerous gases like methane and "blackdamp", not really a gas, but more lack of oxygen. It is very common in old workings of coal mines due to the oxidation of coal and wooden props.
Just a few days ago an explorer found out to his peril what blackdamp is and perished, here is a warning sent out by the UK Coal Authority.
My advice as an ex mine worker, STAY OUT OF OLD COAL MINES And no doubt, many of the members of this site will echo that sentiment.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>21 July 2008
>
>Incident Alert
>
>Shortly after entering a former coal mine on Friday 18 July 2008, a
>man became unconscious due to lack of oxygen in the
>atmosphere. Although the emergency services rescued him, tragically
>he died in hospital on Sunday 20 July 2008.
>
>Former coal mine's with the associated shafts and adits are
>inherently dangerous environments and entry to these places should
>be totally avoided.
>
>Mine workings often contain atmospheres which have very little
>oxygen and if encountering such, will kill people very quickly after
>entering. Mines may also contain flammable gas which could explode
>causing tragic consequences to anyone within the mine workings.
>
>
>There are numerous other hazards associated with old mines,
>including collapses of ground and the Coal Authority emphasises that
>these places are extremely dangerous and should be avoided at all times.
>
>The Coal Authority is the public body which deals with surface
>hazards arising from past coal mining activities, such as ground
>collapses, open mine entries, water and gas emissions from mines and
>spontaneous combustion of coal. Our emergency call out service deals
>with these incidents on a 24 hour basis every day of the year. Upon
>receiving a report of a coal mining hazard, we will arrange for the
>situation to be made safe and remediate those hazards for which we
>have responsibility.
>
>The Coal Authority has asked NAMHO members to report any open coal
>mine entrances they may find as part of their mining research
>work. The report should be made to the emergency telephone response
>service given below. The line is manned 24 hours a day.
>
>To report a surface hazard, Tel: 01623 646 333
>
>The Coal Authority, 200 Lichfield Lane,
>Mansfield, Nottinghamshire, NG18 4RG
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Mick
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Posts: 163
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Post by Mick on Jul 23, 2008 16:53:11 GMT -5
Well said John,know one at all should go into ANY mine at all.
Schools in ex mining areas should let all the children know of the dangers of going into
old mine workings.
Mick.
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Post by dazbt on Jul 24, 2008 9:43:21 GMT -5
I believe that as Mick says it should be ANY mine, including opencast.
Mines other than coal mines can have methane and other killer gasses present apart from the obvious dangers of flooding, roof falls, unseen shafts etc. There have been quite a few major disasters where methane explosions have occurred in metal mines, two in fairly recent years where South African gold mines have experienced deadly methane blasts, 19 men killed in one and at the Beatrix Mine there were 12 men killed in a methane blast around 6 or 7 years ago (this same mine fairly recently outlined a proposal to extract methane on a commercial basis). A lead mine in Derbyshire also exploded unexpectedly resulting in 1932 resulting in the loss of 8 miners, again an accumulation of methane. Carbon Dioxide can be found in dangerous quantities in mines or natural potholes within limestone.
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Post by John on Jul 24, 2008 12:07:15 GMT -5
Too true Daz, my labourer when I was at Boulby used to be an ironstone mineworker when they were open in North Yorks. He told me most were safety lamp mines due to the methane found in them.Even Boulby had gas blowers, methane/pentane/hydrogen plus umpteen other hydrocarbon series of gases had been detected in samples sent to the labs.
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Post by dazbt on Jul 24, 2008 14:03:42 GMT -5
Maybe not very far off topic, but something I hadn't heard of until recently, is that Helium is not only found in existing mines but it is also mined in its own right  |
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Post by shropshirebloke on Jul 24, 2008 16:35:16 GMT -5
Maybe not very far off topic, but something I hadn't heard of until recently, is that Helium is not only found in existing mines but it is also mined in its own right I know what you mean Daz, but I've been trying to imagine a helium mine. I keep getting this wonderful image of a Heath-Robinson cartoon - all these little blokes scooping the helium out of cavities in the roof with airtight butterfly nets, then carefully releasing it into upside down tubs. The shaft would be interesting - no need for a winder - men and supplies down by gravity then you could take the cages back up by filling big helium balloons and letting them float back to the top. No need for safety lamps or methanometers or even the good old canary - just listen for blokes' voices starting to get very high-pitched.... ...sorry, I've had a long and hard day at work!! |
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Post by dazbt on Jul 24, 2008 17:06:22 GMT -5
Maybe not very far off topic, but something I hadn't heard of until recently, is that Helium is not only found in existing mines but it is also mined in its own right I know what you mean Daz, but I've been trying to imagine a helium mine. I keep getting this wonderful image of a Heath-Robinson cartoon - all these little blokes scooping the helium out of cavities in the roof with airtight butterfly nets, then carefully releasing it into upside down tubs. The shaft would be interesting - no need for a winder - men and supplies down by gravity then you could take the cages back up by filling big helium balloons and letting them float back to the top. No need for safety lamps or methanometers or even the good old canary - just listen for blokes' voices starting to get very high-pitched.... ...sorry, I've had a long and hard day at work!! and now for something completely Pythonese .............. try a Google search for the words Helium Mining and read something really Looney (as in Lunar) |
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Mick
Shotfirer.
Posts: 163
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Post by Mick on Jul 24, 2008 18:42:16 GMT -5
Just been looking at this site,Exploration Exploring disused mines and Quarries.
That sounds good kids read it and think its ok to have a look round some old pits.
Mick
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Post by John on Jul 25, 2008 6:31:41 GMT -5
You don't mean UK, Mine and Quarry Exploration site, do you Mick??
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Post by John on Jul 25, 2008 6:34:56 GMT -5
Maybe not very far off topic, but something I hadn't heard of until recently, is that Helium is not only found in existing mines but it is also mined in its own right Don't know about helium Daz, but I recall there was enough hot air around to run a medium sized power station when manager or undermanager was underground. |
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Mick
Shotfirer.
Posts: 163
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Post by Mick on Jul 25, 2008 9:36:00 GMT -5
John it could be but this is wot ive got aditnow.co.uk
Mick
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Post by John on Jul 25, 2008 11:48:25 GMT -5
John it could be but this is wot ive got aditnow.co.uk Mick That seems to be a closed site for members only Mick. |
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Post by John on Jul 25, 2008 15:16:29 GMT -5
Check this bozo out! I've got rocks on my land with more brains. Someone wants to inform him that once that canary croaks it, he's about as much use a stuffed turkey. Jeeze, where were they when God was handing out brains?www.28dayslater.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=31151
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Post by dazbt on Aug 4, 2008 7:01:43 GMT -5
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Clive
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Posts: 168
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Post by Clive on Mar 9, 2009 10:52:02 GMT -5
Didnt know weather or not to reply to this as I hold a differnt view...Sorry Lads. I first started underground exploration when I was 14, never got very far but not for the want of trying. Where I grew up round Rosendale the pits were small moorland pits, mostly drifts, no methane. Me and a mate got an old bath tub and set off over the moors and filled that tub with coal from the old Swineshaw colliery and dragged it back over the moors and sold it to his next door neighbour. Dangerous...Suppose it was but we were lads. On the way back we encountered as rival gang who outnumbered us and we narrowly escaped getting our heads kicked around like footballs. next to the res was a gang of lads playing on motor bikes, one was in our year at school, 2 days later he came off that bike and implaed part of himself on a fence post and had about 6 months off school.....part and parcel of being a lad! Instead of taking drugs, steeling cars and thieving from wharehouses I was routing round old mines and I think Dad would rather have had it that way as he was awaire of my exploites. Now I fancy taking up fell walking in the Lakes, to get back into shape, and it is on the doorstep. To my knowledge there have been at least 2 serious accidents involving deaths on the fells this winter. Lots of hobbies carry their hazards. A year after I first started at the pit, it was Burnley fair and I was working the hollidays as an aprentice mech. A mech wanted a pump stater sending ddown the pit and taking up a district. Now I was so sensible that I was boring and yet it took almost an hour for someone to make a decission that I was capable of getting the man rider down the drift and walking up M6 t/g to give the mech this pump stater and come out again. Years later I was at a private mine in Alston when the owners 12 year old lad walked into my heading to tell me not to fire the shot as the survayors were coming...I thought back to the incedent of my younger days and the contrast between the private mining industry and the Nationalised industry. Most private owners went underground to look at the pits they wanted to re open before they applied, A. to check that the coal that the plans showed was actualy still there and B to see how the pit was standing. I wouldnt advocate going in old mines for folk who have no clue as to what they are doing. However I would reckon that most of us on here (for at least part of their lives) have spent more of our wakeing hours underground than we did in our own houses so who beter to be in such a possition. Yes there are some bozo's, and I have met them going into stupid places in the lead mines. They would look at me and my mate dressed as tramps in our pit rags and talk down to us as I suggested that the roof where there were going was not safe. But after all they had spent a couple of grand on caving gear so what did I know  The bloke you have on the link from Wales John looks a bit wreckless taking in a canary like that. But the photos are good and for all we know he could also be an ex pitman. As for informing the coal authority? well I informed the coal authority when my mates field collapced when the junction of the old Minthill drift collapced. However they told my mate that there was no record of this and it was a duck pond So beware of duck ponds!! I also informed them of an old shaft outside a house that was being removated, told the concil and owner as well. I knew there was a shaft there as it was an old beam engine house. But again the nice coal authority had no records of the shaft....Thats because they didnt know what they were looking for. And any way we have filled in all old shafts in that area. Well I know for a fact that they havent, covered them in concrete, but not filled them in. Sorry for playing devils advocate a bit John. Not wishing to look wreckless niether, but as a historian, if I hadnt gotten into some of those pits all memory of how they operated and workmanship would be consined to what the university grads tell us when they get possitions on differnt groundwork projects. |
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Clive
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Posts: 168
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Post by Clive on Mar 9, 2009 11:07:08 GMT -5
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Post by John on Mar 9, 2009 11:54:48 GMT -5
The biggest gas danger is blackdamp in old workings Clive, methane secondary.
The kid in South Wales knew nothing of mining, so was putting his own life as well as those who could have been called out to rescue him had he got into trouble.
Just relying on a small bird is foolish as you are aware holding a Deputies ticket.
A pumper, Deptuty and myself were chased out of a tailgate by blackdamp one shift and have seen many occasions of blackdamp in coal mining.
That occasion I had a pump motor to examine and sign for, not that shift though!!
The black damp was pouring, yep pouring out of an old longwall. we were following the Deputy who was holding his lamp at knee level, every cut through we passed, his lamps flame "dropped"!
We got about half way in to the pump when his lamp was extinguished, he tried to relight it, blew in the bonnet and kept trying to relight it with no success. So we beat it outbye as fast as we could. Once we reached the bottom of the tailgate he managed to get it lit!
All in all, we were pretty lucky that shift, luckily, we were ordered to wait for him before we could go up the tailgate as the barometer outside was reading low air pressure.
I have a healthy respect for my own safety and for those who worked under me at that time Clive. All the training the old NCB drilled into me paid off.
I'd hope you'd take either your oil lamp or a multi gas/oxygen detector/monitor if you go exploring Clive!
You also have to realise that not all seams oxidize at the same rate, so probably shallow mines aren't so prone to blackdamp as deep mines are.
Blackdamp was prevalent in old workings in all the seams I worked in at Clifton and Cotgrave Collieries in the 60's, and the two I worked at in NSW too.
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Clive
Shotfirer.
Posts: 168
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Post by Clive on Mar 9, 2009 12:44:03 GMT -5
I agree john, black damp is the enemy. Yes always take the lamp...Like I said, it has been my living. A doctor dont turn up without a stethascope. Mine exploration has its place and as miners we are the best to do it. regarding the black damp, a collier hit an old wark at Hill Top, hit it on the top end of it. We were going on the level and the wark was coming up about 1 in 6. he had knocked a hole into it perhapce big enough to crawl through, but I didnt get that far. Just shon my lamp down it. It was like sitting in the dentist chair getting the gas. I turned round and stagered back accross the level into fresh air. If I had gone just a few steps into that wark I wouldn't have come out. A few months before, before we had started mining, we had bared the top off and put the drift gantry in. There was an old road we were going to follow down with the drift, but it was choked up with debris. My step son was 13 and knew diddly squat about mining. I had taken him up there one sunday evening and it was a misty drizzly evening at that. Our David stated he felt dizzy, and this was in the gantry at the top of the as yet un driven drift, it was leeking out of the old gob. There are some cowboys about John, but there are a lot who take the exploration very seriously and have good gear and are clued up to what they are doing. Just have to make sure I have all my photos before the coal authority get round them all  fair comment on the Welsh lad. I did think after he described all the twists and turns how the place was getting ventelated that far in. I found an old horse road a few years back, date from 1850s, abandoned early 1900's. Its quite well hid but I came across it trying to keep out of the road of some stirks that were following me (rather quickly I may add) up the hill. havent rushed back there as I cant see how it would be ventilated, I reckon it must go in a mile or so. But it would be nice to get some photos inbye to record it for posterity. |
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inbye
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Posts: 114
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Post by inbye on Mar 9, 2009 15:22:02 GMT -5
I've done a lot of mine exploration, both as a club member & just with a couple of mates. Not done it for some years now but I firmly believe that as long as the group is *responsible* & properly equipped, they should not be admonished for their interest.
As a toddler, I can still remember my dad coming home in his pit muck, before the baths were built. Mother washing the alkaline burns on his back, as he sat in a tin bath in front of the fire...My point?? I was lucky enough to follow him into the pit & to find out, first hand, what all the talk about Slushers, peggies, chocks, pans, jim crow, jazz rails, oil lamps etc, etc, was all about.
To a *student* of mining history, there's not much to be seen, on the surface. Underground, however, it's a different story.......a buried world of obsolete mining methods & antiquated machinery.
Of course there were always dangers attached to the pursuit of coal & there will always be the exception, but you don't hear of people being injured in droves. Done responsibly, mine exploration would be not as dangerous, as say, motorcycle racing on a wet curcuit, & nowhere near as attending a match between Millwall & Leeds united...
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Post by welderpaul on May 27, 2012 13:32:00 GMT -5
regarding the black damp, a collier hit an old wark at Hill Top, hit it on the top end of it. We were going on the level and the wark was coming up about 1 in 6. he had knocked a hole into it perhapce big enough to crawl through, but I didnt get that far. What's a 'wark'? Are The Coal Authority responsible for collapses, subsidence etc for all redundant mine workings...so NCB, BC, RJB, UK Coal? |
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Post by John on May 27, 2012 14:52:18 GMT -5
The Coal Authority.
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Post by dazbt on May 28, 2012 6:07:26 GMT -5
"What's a wark ?" might be clue in this stanza; Excerpt; An appeal for t' sufferers o' th' Audley Mining Disaster, 1895. Vanquished Heroes. By William Baron of Blackburn from 'Echoes of the Loom.' Waist deep in th' ice-crowd stream below, these brave man labour on, Duty's their sole incentive, for good wark may be done. An' when they stop exhausted, a fresh band teks their place, An' sooa for five long days an' neets they feight death face to face. But when t'sixth day dawns on 'em their task they've to resign. Th' flood vanquishes these heroes then, an' victory rests wi't' mine. An' as they sadly turn away, their cheeks wi' tears are weet, Thinkin' o' th' fourscore should 'at lie entombed beneath their feet. see full poem here; www.cmhrc.co.uk/site/literature/poetry/audley.html |
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ken
Trainee
Posts: 46
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Post by ken on May 30, 2012 20:16:15 GMT -5
In reply to the question what does the word 'wark' mean? I think it is just means 'work" Seems to fit the context. It is interesting how the different dialects change the vowels around. Queens English walk (stork) in Geordie becomes wark (bark). Work (lurk) becomes work (stork).
Which gives rise to the joke about the Geordie miner with an injured ankle being visited by the proper speaking doctor asking him "can you walk?' Geordie replies 'Work! Work! (like stork, meaning to labour) Why man I cannot wark (walk) niver mind work
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Post by dazbt on May 31, 2012 7:09:44 GMT -5
Wark, old work, abandond workings or simply "T'owd man", perhaps.  |
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Clive
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Posts: 168
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Post by Clive on Nov 3, 2012 20:14:18 GMT -5
soz took so long. Yes Wark is work, or 'working. You have bord and pillar, well we have, or should I say had, Warks and ends. a wark is driven along the cleat of the coal, and an end is driven at 90 degrees to it.
so the 'end' would be the heading and the 'warks', would be the bords driven off the heading. leaving the pillars between. Just a bit or Lancashire pitmatic.
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