Fireman

[ejb]

There's a discussion going on in a mining history list as to the origin of the term "Fireman" in coal mines.

AIUI,he originally "fired" the methane that had built-up,by igniting it with a candle on a long pole,whilst draped in soaking wet rags !!!!!!!,but later on became the person responsible for firing shots.

Anyone care to make any comments,suggestions etc ?

[John]

ejb said:

There's a discussion going on in a mining history list as to the origin of the term "Fireman" in coal mines.

AIUI,he originally "fired" the methane that had built-up,by igniting it with a candle on a long pole,whilst draped in soaking wet rags !!!!!!!,but later on became the person responsible for firing shots.

Anyone care to make any comments,suggestions etc ?

Going back to my training with the old NCB, a fireman was probably the predecessor of the modern Deputy.
There was a picture of an engraving in the old NCB Mine Gasses booklet called "The Penitent". His job was to make sure the workings were safe from firedamp. He would be wrapped in wet rags and had a candle or something that was alight on the end of a long pole, which he would thrust into probable gas pockets, thus igniting the firedamp.
I believe in the old South Wales pits, shotfirer's were called "Firemen" I also think in the Lancs coalfields a shotfirer was also called a fireman. Whether from the old meaning is probably debatable.....But I'd assume the early Penitants, being the ones who made the workings safe before the shift went in to "win" the coal, would have been the forerunner to our Deputies of today.
Bill Riley might comment further as he was a Deputy at Shirebrook for a number of years.

John.

[ejb]

Thanks for the swift reply John,that's where I must have seen that pic.
As I was in Lancashire,a "fireman" to me was the shotfirer.

I wonder whether a "Penitent" was a- highly paid,b- desperate for a job,or c- the local nutter

eric

[John]

ejb said:

Thanks for the swift reply John,that's where I must have seen that pic.
As I was in Lancashire,a "fireman" to me was the shotfirer.

I wonder whether a "Penitent" was a- highly paid,b- desperate for a job,or c- the local nutter

eric

Them days Eric, I'd say two out of three, a nutter and desperate for a job....

Mind you, we must have all been mad risking our lives everyday, and then some seeing what damage it did our bodies many years after we left.

Funny though, how we miss the lifestyle and mates we could rely upon.

[Ragger]

The Penitent.

Fireman is widely known as an official of the mine in many area’s, even today.
Historically he had one of the most dangerous jobs. His walked down roads or tunnels with a candle and ignited any accumulated gases he encountered. He held a long stick with a candle at the end. Naturally this exploded any methane present. His only protection was to wear clothing such as wool, or leather, well damped, and his head protected by a hood (sometimes he was referred to as the ‘penitent’, because his dress resembled certain religious orders in the Roman Catholic Church). Very often the fireman was killed during the operation of igniting the gas.

I have a picture of this operation but I don't know if it can be displayed on this site.

[John]

Be my guest Bill, I probably have the same piccie in my old Mine Gases booklet.

[Ragger]

How can I insert a picture John?

[ejb]

I looked up "Fireman" in Dictionary of Mining by A Nelson (1964),and it gives these :-

1- A Deputy in a coalmine.

2- A shotfirer in a metal mine.

I think it varies from region to region really,as "NACODS" treats them seperately !

[John]

Ragger said:

How can I insert a picture John?

Just above the window for typing your post in Bill are a double row of buttons starting with B for bold, I for italics etc. Bottom row of the two starts with a * move along to the fourth button which is a picture frame, click on it and a text appears, delete between the two end pieces and enter the URL of your piccie, which I assume is on your site, all pictures have to be on a remote site!

[Ragger]

Thanks John I'll have to upload it.

[John]

What shows up Bill is then URL then

Highlight the URL, delete it and enter your URL of where the image is located.

[Ragger]

The Penitent pic.

[dazb]

THE IMPERTINANT PENITANT

Reight lad, abart this job
Easy to do and pays reight well
Seven shifts wurk erll ern thee a bob
An tuppence extra fer firin’t gob.
Just get thi candle on a stick
An get darn’t pit narr double quick.
Mek shurr tha theer biforr’t all’t men
Dun’t want owt bad ter happen ter them.
Just leight thi candle up in’t heddin
Burn that damp an stop it spreddin.
One question gaffer before arr go
These rags are sodden I hope yer know
If ave arr ter wear this hooded cloak
Dus tha mind mi hevin a smoke?
There’ll be no smoking in this pit
Manager’s rules just wouldn’t allow it.
Besides all that, smoking isn’t good
Give it up, you know you should
Pulmonary oedema and emphysema
Chronic bronchitis and even blastema
Just complicates a coroner’s report.
Whereas “Killed in an explosion” keeps it short.

[Clive]

Firemen were deputies in lancashire right to the end, well there is still one pit with a licence on it but he has no fireman he keeps asking me to go back.

I was almost sorry that on landing in alston I was no longer a fireman but a deputy, I prefered the old term.

Loved the poem. On a simmilar theam a mate of ,John Davies, was hauled before the manager at Old Meadows colliery for taking photos down the pit. The film was confescated as it was against regulations to have a flash down the pit.....Hang on, John says, were still using candles!

Clive