Daw Mill fire

[shropshirebloke]

I've just seen this on the BBC web site: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-warwickshire-21571790

I can't see them reopening seeing as the pit was due to close next year anyway.

I wonder how much longer we'll have any deep mining of coal in the UK?

[mineruk]

At least nobody was hurt but I cant see the pit reopening but you never know.

[shropshirebloke]

From the Financial Times: www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a7af2ef8-7f50-11e2-89ed-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2LxCBnw3I (soory about this, but although I managed to access this link and copy the quote below, it's now saying that you've got to subscribe to view it - NEVER!

Coalfield Resources, which was known as UK Coal before a restructuring split its property and mining divisions in December, said it would be three to six months before the mine reopened.

However, Coalfield Resources said investors were not exposed to losses since it had little economic interest in the mines, which were controlled by an employee benefit trust including miners’ pension funds. “Shareholders’ money is in the property side [Harworth Estates],”

So no ****ing surprises there then - b*stards - lucky workers get the pits, investors get the assets, i.e. the land which they occupy, which will be worth more if the pits close...

So UK Coal shareholders will probably do better if the company stops producing coal...

[shropshirebloke]

...might explain why their web site: coalfieldresources.com/media/latest-news doesn't mention the fire - despite the fact that it didn't break out today, but last Friday...still, why should they care?

[mineruk]

I see in this morning TIMES the company are going to ask the government for help to keep the business going and for help to keep pits that have to be mothballed. To me I think it is another way of getting out of deep coal mining and just have the opencast mines only. The company also said it have to go in administration.

[Wheldale]

Its a shame, but the question is why has this happend? I know there has been talk that Daw Mill needs a new shaft for ventilation etc. Kellingley I've heard has a couple of years left before needing major investment etc. I dont know how long Thoresby has left. UK Coal as has been said before has gone for the easy coal in its mines to make a quick buck. Looks like they are giving up now.

Would the outcome / demise of the industry have been any different under a different private company? It will be interesting to see what help the government gives if UK coal goes into administration or if a new buyer comes along?

[John]

Feb 26, 2013 5:55:03 GMT -5 Wheldale said:

Its a shame, but the question is why has this happend? I know there has been talk that Daw Mill needs a new shaft for ventilation etc. Kellingley I've heard has a couple of years left before needing major investment etc. I dont know how long Thoresby has left. UK Coal as has been said before has gone for the easy coal in its mines to make a quick buck. Looks like they are giving up now.

Would the outcome / demise of the industry have been any different under a different private company? It will be interesting to see what help the government gives if UK coal goes into administration or if a new buyer comes along?

I see they are prone to spontaneous combustion, and this was a goaf fire that got out of hand. Many seams are prone to spontaneous combustion, the old NCB/BC had many problems on that score, and from I read Daw Mill was such a pit. It has a history of Spon Comb over it's life.
Problem is, better ventilation assists Spon Com, ie higher water gauge, more air goes through the goaf.
Some pits used to seal the goaf on advancing longwalls, something that's impossible with retreating.
It's just one of those problems colliery companies have to deal with.

[bulwellbrian]

Warwickshire pits always had a reputation for spontaneous combustion. Also Daw Mill left a lot of coal unmined because of the thick seam section.

I am pretty sure that in NCB days Daw Mill and also Coventry and Newdigate used to work through the thick coal twice. I am not sure which the took first the top section or the bottom section.

[John]

A few months back, I was looking at a list of Notts coal seams subject to Son Com, I think it was on the BGS site, it listed deep soft and deep hard as two seams that are subject to Spon Com.....I can't ever recall any fires in Deep Hard, except for 10's M/G fire at Clifton due to a build of of fines around a drivehead roller.

Some pf the upper measure seams were listed, can't recall which now.

[bulwellbrian]

I don't remember many instances of heatings in EMD Area 6 when I worked at the area laboratory. Certainly none that became serious.

I do remember the belt fire at Clifton, the divisional mobile laboratory was called out to the pit and I spent a night in it doing gas analysis on samples brought in by the rescue teams, that is when I met Mr Clements the Manager.

[John]

Feb 26, 2013 11:58:38 GMT -5 bulwellbrian said:

I don't remember many instances of heatings in EMD Area 6 when I worked at the area laboratory. Certainly none that became serious.

I do remember the belt fire at Clifton, the divisional mobile laboratory was called out to the pit and I spent a night in it doing gas analysis on samples brought in by the rescue teams, that is when I met Mr Clements the Manager.

Now there was one man who used to blow his top under production pressures....There is a Dennis Ward who registered a few weeks back. I'm pretty sure it's the same man who was U/M in Charge at Clifton, his declared age would put him about the same age as that man. I sent him an email but so far no response.

[erichall]

There was a quite serious one at Markham No.4, in the Piper Seam, sometime in the late 70's. we managed to keep working and to finally control it, but it was rather scary at the time.

[John]

From the Coal Authorities Site.



Coal Seams With a History of Spontaneous Combustion.

The following tables presents a list of coal seams which have been known to suffer from occurrences of spontaneous combustion and are consequently regarded as at 'high risk' of succumbing to spontaneous combustion when being entered, worked or disturbed.

Coal seams which are excluded from the table should not be regarded as free from risk of spontaneous combustion as the majority of coal seams could suffer from spontaneous combustion depending upon the method of them being entered, worked or disturbed.

Please be aware that some areas may have localised names for these seams.
Coal Seams in England with a History of Spontaneous Combustion Seam Location: Coal Seam:
Cannock Bass
Eight Foot
Shallow
Cumberland Where roof coal is left
>Durham (South) Maudlin Seam
Lancashire Where roof coal is left
Higher Florida
Lower Florida
Trencherbone

Leicestershire Lount Seam
Excelsior
New Main
Derbyshire (North) Deep Soft
Top Hard
Derbyshire (South) Main Coal
Northumberland High Main
Main
Nottinghamshire Blackshale
Top Hard
Top Soft
Parkgate
Low Main
Staffordshire (North) Great Row
Spencroft
Cannel Row
Moss
Cockshead
Ten Feet
Staffordshire (South) Staffordshire thick coal
Warwickshire Warwickshire thick coal
Yorkshire Barnsley
Top Soft
Day Bed
Dunsil
Beeston
Stanley Main
Shafton
High Hazel
Thorncliffe
Parkgate
Silkstone
Coal Seams in Scotland with a History of Spontaneous Combustion Seam Location: Coal Seam:
Ayrshire Big Drum Seam
Coral Seam
Gas Water
Main Coal
Major seam
Patna
Seven Foot Coal
Thick
Wee Drum
Scotland (North) Dysart Main
Scotland (South) Stairhead
Corbie
The Kelty Main (Kinrod)
Free Craighead (Quarrelton Thick Coal)
Coal Seams in Wales with a History of Spontaneous Combustion Seam Location: Coal Seam:
North Wales Where roof coal is left
Coal Seams with High Risk Spontaneous Combustion Based on Cross Over Temperature Values

The following table presents a list of coal seams which laboratory tests indicated were at high or medium risk of spontaneous combustion. The designation of high or moderate risk is based wholly on cross-over temperature (COT) tests*.

It must be emphasised that, unlike the list of seams prone to spontaneous combustion based on mining history (above), this list is largely based on small samples from seams. Where there are multiple samples the number is shown in brackets following the risk level. This second list should therefore be treated as having less weight than the first list, although still having a significant value.

Coal seams which are excluded from the table should not be regarded as free from risk of spontaneous combustion as the majority of coal seams could suffer from spontaneous combustion depending upon the method of them being entered, worked or disturbed.
Coal Seams in England with a High Risk of Spontaneous Combustion Based on Cross Over Temperature Values Seam Location: Coal Seam: Spontaneous Combustion Risk:
South Yorkshire Two Foot High
Best
Clod
Little Flint
Lower Clunch
Lower New Mine
Randle
Two Foot (Residual Coal)
Upper Clunch High
High (3)
High/Medium (3)
High (2)
High/Medium (2)
High (2)
High (2)
High (3)

* COT tests gradually heat coal in the presence of air until the temperature becomes self sustaining and the lower temperature that this occurs, the greater the risk of spontaneous combustion. Coal samples with COT’s of below 170°C are designated high risk and those up to 200°C medium risk.
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[mineruk]

I see they have announce that Daw Mill is going to close with the lost of most of the jobs.

[bob737]

I have worked at Newdigate pit in Warwickshire and can say with certainty that the upper coal in the Warwickshire Thick seam was taken before the lower leaf, which therefore didn't have great roof conditions when the remaining coal was mined. The seam, certainly at Daw Mill, was up to 9 metres thick and consisted of 7 seams which combined to make the 'Warwickshire Thick'. These were, starting at the top, The Two Yard (best coal), Bare Coal (most 'friable' and very prone to spon. com.), the Ryder Seam, The Ell or 'blue' seam, The Smithy, Top 9 foot (slate coal) and Bottom 9 foot.

The recent fire at Daw Mill was not in the goaf but actually in the tail-gate. (There was a heating associated with the fault and in the goaf, but this wasn't it) The face, 32s, was negotiating an 11.5 metre fault against all the advice of those who new the mine well including HMIs and the tail gate had narrowed and lowered as the face approached the TG heating area, speeding up the ventilation velocity. Daw Mill is no stranger to spon. com. heatings but this one was, somehow, allowed to get out of control. The T.G. cribs caught fire and the roof suffered collapse. The main fan was turned off just before midnight on Friday 22nd February when the CO readings were in the region of 10,000 ppm.

This is what can happen when you have a 'Water Board' man appointed as CEO and who insists that the face is taken through a massive fault to access the coal the other side...

Daw Mill had fantastic potential and it is just unbelievable that this mine was allowed to get into this position - ruined by idiots!

[John]

Mining's now stranger to idiots being placed in charge, I've seen some stupid things in my years underground with myself and others just shaking our heads in disbelief.
The NCB had it's fair share of stupidity in the upper tiers of their Ivory Towers at Hobart House, men who thought they knew local conditions better than the area heads.
Cotgrave was sunk where it was because of those in Hobart House knowing better than local mining experts...Cost them dearly too, shaft lining problems caused by sinking through gypsum, which combined with water to produce sulphuric acid, that soon ate through the shaft lining on the upcast shaft and caused major flooding, luckily, over a weekend when nobody was underground.
It was sighted because the NCB had already purchased the land, and would not listen to any excuses that Foraky came up with, after all Foraky only drilled all the test bores for the NCB to prove the reserves, and had miles of extensive core samples, plus many many years of drilling and mining expertise in shaft sinking, shaft lining techniques etc... But what did they know....LOL

Sounds to me, that the owners of Daw Mill want out of deep mining completely and the perfect excuse came along...Whats left now, Thoresby and Kellingly???

[tygwyn]

Correct me if i`m wrong,
Was`nt Daw Mill scheduled to close in 2014
Did`nt it need a new drift/shaft to be a viable entity
Surely,you are not saying the CEO wanted to drive a 300m face through a fault to access new reserves?

[Wheldale]

Kevin Hunt, HR director at Hobart House had a saying I read somewhere "cock up or conspiracy", sounds about right for Daw mill. I doubt under UK Coal that Kellingley or Thoresby will have much of a future.