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Lamps
Feb 22, 2008 17:57:14 GMT -5
Post by shropshirebloke on Feb 22, 2008 17:57:14 GMT -5
Flame: Protector Naylors Ackroyd & Best (later - post 1926? Hailwood & Best) Patterson E Thomas & Williams Wolf (Wm. Maurice) Richard Johnson, Clapham & Morris Cooke Prima Davis of Derby
Electric: CEAG Nife Oldham Chloride
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Lamps
Feb 22, 2008 19:14:32 GMT -5
Post by John on Feb 22, 2008 19:14:32 GMT -5
And don't forget the Edison cap lamp too! 4 Nickel Iron cells in a stainless steel battery case and stainless steel headpiece with just one bulb.
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inbye
Shotfirer.
Posts: 114
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Lamps
Jan 18, 2009 6:46:27 GMT -5
Post by inbye on Jan 18, 2009 6:46:27 GMT -5
Mine lighting is a subject I have studied since the late 1960's. There were a great many more lamp manufacturers, some, like Hutchinson of Hartshead (where the M62 service area is now) produced only a handfull of lamps. Others, like J.Mills of Newcastle, spanned the 19th & 20th centuries & produced a large number of diverse lamps. Included, is an image of a lamp by a Lancashire maker. Only a handfull of these are thought to exist. The rectangular nameplate reads :- "The Miners Lamp Electric Lighting Co Ltd, Monton, Eccles. The "electric lighting" refers to the way the flame lamp was lit.
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Lamps
Jan 18, 2009 7:18:59 GMT -5
Post by John on Jan 18, 2009 7:18:59 GMT -5
Davis of Derby made their name with scientific instruments and flame safety lamps for the mining industry. I've just copied two old NCB booklets for my website of the same name as the forum, Mine Gasses, both the old 1950's version and the later one. The early edition contains illustrations of older lamps like the old Ringrose Spiralarm lamp.
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inbye
Shotfirer.
Posts: 114
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Lamps
Jan 18, 2009 8:06:45 GMT -5
Post by inbye on Jan 18, 2009 8:06:45 GMT -5
Pretty sure the *Ringrose* & *Spiralarm* were by different makers. Ringrose (I.G.D Leeds) worked by allowing sampled air to seep through a porous pot, containing an incadescent wire filament.
Naylors Spiralarm used a bimetalic coil "Spiral" held over the flame. When the flame increased by burning gas, the coil moved further round, to close an electrical contact, which lit the red light.
Both of these makers gas detectors found extensive use as sewer lamps. If you see a Spiralarm type "M" it's mining, but type "S" is a sewer lamp.
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Lamps
Jan 18, 2009 9:28:44 GMT -5
Post by John on Jan 18, 2009 9:28:44 GMT -5
Pretty sure the *Ringrose* & *Spiralarm* were by different makers. Ringrose (I.G.D Leeds) worked by allowing sampled air to seep through a porous pot, containing an incadescent wire filament. Naylors Spiralarm used a bimetalic coil "Spiral" held over the flame. When the flame increased by burning gas, the coil moved further round, to close an electrical contact, which lit the red light. Both of these makers gas detectors found extensive use as sewer lamps. If you see a Spiralarm type "M" it's mining, but type "S" is a sewer lamp. You could well be right, been years since I did flame safety lamps at tech. I think the teacher just bundled them up as the Ringrose like vacuum cleaners are bundled as "Hoovers". Alas, all my old notes from Tech days are now long gone.
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Lamps
Jan 18, 2009 21:43:05 GMT -5
Post by coalfire on Jan 18, 2009 21:43:05 GMT -5
I don't see Koehler flame safety lamp listed anywhere. Did they not use them in the U.K.?
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Lamps
Jan 19, 2009 8:01:07 GMT -5
Post by John on Jan 19, 2009 8:01:07 GMT -5
Not sure Lannie, I only ever saw the Protector lamps in the pits I worked in, both officials relightable amd workmens none relightable. Same in New South Wales mines in Australia, all Protector lamps, although they don't use flame safety lamps anymore down there anymore.
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Lamps
Jan 19, 2009 8:25:28 GMT -5
Post by John on Jan 19, 2009 8:25:28 GMT -5
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inbye
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Posts: 114
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Lamps
Jan 20, 2009 14:54:56 GMT -5
Post by inbye on Jan 20, 2009 14:54:56 GMT -5
I don't see Koehler flame safety lamp listed anywhere. Did they not use them in the U.K.? No, Koehler not used in the UK. At the end of the flame lamp era, there were just the *big 4* Thomas & Williams, Protector Co, Wolf (Sheffield) & Patterson (Gateshead). Protector lamps saw use nationwide, the others were more regional. All 4 produced thier own version of the *Garforth* lamp, as used by the NCB.
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inbye
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Lamps
Jan 20, 2009 14:58:21 GMT -5
Post by inbye on Jan 20, 2009 14:58:21 GMT -5
Yes, some decent lamps on that site. A pity some have been spoiled by overzealous "restoration". One or two descriptions are wide of the mark, too...
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inbye
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Posts: 114
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Lamps
Feb 22, 2009 9:18:13 GMT -5
Post by inbye on Feb 22, 2009 9:18:13 GMT -5
Here's another lamp from my collection, this one is not on the *list* (well, sort of) It's a Wolf Acetylene lamp, the firm later became Wm Maurice, Sheffield. This lamp pre dates the Maurice take over & was made at the old Leeds address. The lamp dates from C1910 & is fully complete & original. The carbide chamber is at the base of the lamp, while the water chamber sits above it, below the glass. The reflector, behind the glass, is the factory fitted original & quite rare to find. Probably far too complicated to have ever caught on in the UK, although Acetylene safety lamps saw service throughout parts of Europe...
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inbye
Shotfirer.
Posts: 114
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Lamps
Feb 22, 2009 10:11:54 GMT -5
Post by inbye on Feb 22, 2009 10:11:54 GMT -5
This Welsh made lamp is a "Morgans" Patent. A very complicated, double skinned bonneted lamp, with a very unusual gauze arrangement. The side lock is another patent feature. A hardwood peg would be pushed up into the lock & once in place, a spring snaps into place behind it, making it impossible to remove. I believe this was later changed to a lead plug, which could be re-cast & used again. I hope these are of interest... If anyone would like images of any lamps, stripped down, let me know...
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Feb 23, 2009 7:35:40 GMT -5
Post by John on Feb 23, 2009 7:35:40 GMT -5
Very unusual oil lamps! I've only ever been involved with the "Protector" lamps in my time. Only one pit I've worked at had lead seals in the lamps, that was Angus Place in NSW, all the others had the magnetic locks. Now Australia has made the flame safety lamp obsolete. I think I'd feel uneasy working in a mine without them! Even though when I was still underground we used D6's and automatic methane monitoring on longwall faces. But we did have blackdamp in tailgates coming out the old faces. And that would show right away on the flame of an oil lamp.
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inbye
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Posts: 114
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Lamps
Feb 28, 2009 11:29:03 GMT -5
Post by inbye on Feb 28, 2009 11:29:03 GMT -5
Here's a very early caplamp/handlamp. The hardwood battery box contains an ancient wet cell battery, sealed into the box with pitch. The headpiece is brass with a bulls eye style lense. The reflector is enamel & the bulb "hooks" onto it's terminals. The manufacture & workmanship is definately *instrument* quality. It would be hard to imagine this lamp being used by anyone, other than the mine owner/viewer. This view shows the headpiece detached. Top view shows the headpiece attached to the battery box, to form a handlamp. The lamp was made in London, at the "Bristol patent electric safety lamp works" Westminster. I've never seen another, has anyone got one or seen one?
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Feb 28, 2009 17:29:17 GMT -5
Post by shropshirebloke on Feb 28, 2009 17:29:17 GMT -5
It doesn't look very safe to me!! Tell you what, I'll do you a straight swap for a very rare Oldham Type T ;D
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inbye
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Lamps
Mar 1, 2009 4:51:09 GMT -5
Post by inbye on Mar 1, 2009 4:51:09 GMT -5
It doesn't look very safe to me!! Tell you what, I'll do you a straight swap for a very rare Oldham Type T ;D What? the really rare one, with the see-thro' cells.......you're on
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inbye
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Posts: 114
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Lamps
Mar 1, 2009 5:00:38 GMT -5
Post by inbye on Mar 1, 2009 5:00:38 GMT -5
Perhaps John can answer this, when he comes on:- There are three wet cells in the battery, would this have made it a 6volt lamp? Also, what would you guess the duration of something from this era would have been?
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Lamps
Mar 1, 2009 7:14:46 GMT -5
Post by shropshirebloke on Mar 1, 2009 7:14:46 GMT -5
What? the really rare one, with the see-thro' cells.......you're on They were see-through when it left the factory, but some careless blighter has scuffed it in a few places - it looks as though they've just worn it on their belt while they've crawled round a pit or summat. I dunno, some people ;D
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Mar 1, 2009 8:07:59 GMT -5
Post by John on Mar 1, 2009 8:07:59 GMT -5
Perhaps John can answer this, when he comes on:- There are three wet cells in the battery, would this have made it a 6volt lamp? Also, what would you guess the duration of something from this era would have been? With the size of those filler holes, I'd hazard a guess they were nickel iron cells, around 1.3 volts per cell. Very much like the old stainless steel Edison batteries. They required a special charger that is monitored throughout the charge cycle by the lamproom operatives.
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Lamps
Mar 1, 2009 8:15:22 GMT -5
Post by John on Mar 1, 2009 8:15:22 GMT -5
I forgot, Ceag also had a three cell nickel iron cap lamp too, we had them at the training centre during my underground training. Three cell stainless battery, stainless steel headpiece, cable went in the back, pretty heavy at side of the Oldhams. They had a centre pin charging system on the battery itself and a pick up on the headpiece. So you hung the headpiece on the rack similar to Oldhams, but had to make sure the battery was postioned right too. If I recall right, the lamproom attendant put the battery on charge as he had to monitor charge rates.
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Mar 1, 2011 8:21:03 GMT -5
Post by erichall on Mar 1, 2011 8:21:03 GMT -5
The 'Garforth' lamp as used in the NCB was actually an improvement in design on the old Protector S6 safety lamp as produced by the Protector Lamp and Lighting Co. of Eccles. probably the most common manufacturer used by the NCB. The 'Garforth Principle' enabled bulb samples to be taken anywhere, even from cavities, and be introduced into the Safety Lamp in a safe area. It introduced the sample via the bulb and admitted it to the FSL around the flame by a sinntered ring. Where an ordinary FSL flame would spiral into the top of the lamp at 5%, this enabled samples of as much as 12% to be introduced before 'spiralling' occurred. It also made the reading of the lower levels much easier to spot. It was in fact designed, and tested, at the Safety in Mines Research Establishment in Buxton before being introduced into the Type 6 (relighter) lamp to become the GRS6, which became the standard 'Deputy's Lamp'
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inbye
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Posts: 114
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Lamps
Mar 5, 2011 11:38:41 GMT -5
Post by inbye on Mar 5, 2011 11:38:41 GMT -5
Further to erichall's post, from memory, the "Protector" Garforth was introduced C1968 & was originally designated GR6. The nameplates being the machine engraved, black filled, variety. It was soon found that the brass, outer wick tube, started to burn away around the top edge. These brass tubes were then replaced by stainless steel ones. The lamps so modified became the GR6S & were also fitted with the more familiar embossed nameplate.
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inbye
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Posts: 114
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Lamps
Dec 23, 2011 14:44:23 GMT -5
Post by inbye on Dec 23, 2011 14:44:23 GMT -5
It's going back a while but, was anyone an official in 1959-60? I ask because I've an interesting lamp from 1959 that was only issued to certain pits on a trial basis. It's a long shot but does anyone remember it? Pic 1 shows what appears to be just another type 6... It's actually a type59... Pic 3 shows the electrical "switch", which is swung across the wick, by means of the striker key & when the circuit is made, a platinum wire glows to ignite the wick. pic 4 shows the difference as soon as the base is removed... pic 5 reveals where the cells sat, after removing the battery "keeper" plate. pic 6 shows the switch closed, i.e. lighting the flame. last pic 7 shows the switch in the relaxed position. Also note, the "striker" key, which only has 2 teeth formed. It would be interesting to see if anyone's come across it...
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Dec 24, 2011 4:16:10 GMT -5
Post by garryo on Dec 24, 2011 4:16:10 GMT -5
Miners Lamps
A guy I know is a keen collector of miners lamps, the interesting point is that he never worked in the mines. He tells me that there is a growing interest in old lamps mostly of the oil type Pattersons, Protectors, ETW of Wales ect. Of the substantial numbers of makers in past years only one UK manufacturer exists albeit in a minor way. The chap I know who shall remain nameless is a pretty dad hand at lathe work and sometimes refurbishes lamps fo the company (Protector). He tells me that some unscroupless types refurbish lamps and pass them off as genuine with good returns. In his collection of upto 200 lamps he has lamps reputed to be worth over Three Thousand Pounds. I can remember in my NCB days getting I think one shilling a shift or similair for carrying a lamp (tradesmen) and when the pits started to close you couldn't give lamps away never mind sell them.
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Aug 11, 2015 2:53:44 GMT -5
Post by mbristol on Aug 11, 2015 2:53:44 GMT -5
Here's a very early caplamp/handlamp. The hardwood battery box contains an ancient wet cell battery, sealed into the box with pitch. The headpiece is brass with a bulls eye style lense. The reflector is enamel & the bulb "hooks" onto it's terminals. The manufacture & workmanship is definately *instrument* quality. It would be hard to imagine this lamp being used by anyone, other than the mine owner/viewer. This view shows the headpiece detached. Top view shows the headpiece attached to the battery box, to form a handlamp. The lamp was made in London, at the "Bristol patent electric safety lamp works" Westminster. I've never seen another, has anyone got one or seen one? Hi! My apologies for reviving such an old thread, but I recently became aware of it. I am a descendant from Lars Bristol, born Lars Nilsson Breistøl, who traveled from Norway to England in 1879 and started working for Sir Joseph Swan. Whilst working there he created what has been known as the first light bulb, but his name got lost in the feud between Swan and Edison. Does any of you know where I might get one of these lamps or any other artifacts with his name on it? There are blood links from him to me, as he was my fathers great-great-great nephew or something like that. I appreciate any replies
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Lamps
Aug 11, 2015 6:20:33 GMT -5
Post by John on Aug 11, 2015 6:20:33 GMT -5
Here's a very early caplamp/handlamp. The hardwood battery box contains an ancient wet cell battery, sealed into the box with pitch. The headpiece is brass with a bulls eye style lense. The reflector is enamel & the bulb "hooks" onto it's terminals. The manufacture & workmanship is definately *instrument* quality. It would be hard to imagine this lamp being used by anyone, other than the mine owner/viewer. This view shows the headpiece detached. Top view shows the headpiece attached to the battery box, to form a handlamp. The lamp was made in London, at the "Bristol patent electric safety lamp works" Westminster. I've never seen another, has anyone got one or seen one? Hi! My apologies for reviving such an old thread, but I recently became aware of it. I am a descendant from Lars Bristol, born Lars Nilsson Breistøl, who traveled from Norway to England in 1879 and started working for Sir Joseph Swan. Whilst working there he created what has been known as the first light bulb, but his name got lost in the feud between Swan and Edison. Does any of you know where I might get one of these lamps or any other artifacts with his name on it? There are blood links from him to me, as he was my fathers great-great-great nephew or something like that. I appreciate any replies Best advice I can give, is do a daily check of Ebay, do the rounds of car boot sales, swap meets and antique fairs. When and if you find one, if it's a face to face sales, don't get over excited, it may drive the price up!!
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rob52
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Posts: 199
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Lamps
Feb 10, 2017 16:17:40 GMT -5
Post by rob52 on Feb 10, 2017 16:17:40 GMT -5
NoEIoM&ME - LAMPSNorth of England Institute of Mining and Mechanical Engineers Nicholas Wood Memorial Library Miners safety lamps a guide to resources Rob
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Aug 25, 2018 11:37:52 GMT -5
Post by darklantern on Aug 25, 2018 11:37:52 GMT -5
Here's another lamp from my collection, this one is not on the *list* (well, sort of) It's a Wolf Acetylene lamp, the firm later became Wm Maurice, Sheffield. This lamp pre dates the Maurice take over & was made at the old Leeds address. The lamp dates from C1910 & is fully complete & original. The carbide chamber is at the base of the lamp, while the water chamber sits above it, below the glass. The reflector, behind the glass, is the factory fitted original & quite rare to find. Probably far too complicated to have ever caught on in the UK, although Acetylene safety lamps saw service throughout parts of Europe... Hello: I would like to know more about the lamp on the right Thanks
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