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WV COAL
May 16, 2011 7:23:06 GMT -5
Post by dazbt on May 16, 2011 7:23:06 GMT -5
I wouldn't decry these lads, I've seen plenty of teams performing much worse. ;D
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WV COAL
May 16, 2011 7:32:03 GMT -5
Post by John on May 16, 2011 7:32:03 GMT -5
I've seen everything go wrong that can go wrong, I think we all have Daz, but not every shift..... ;D
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WV COAL
May 16, 2011 7:40:59 GMT -5
Post by John on May 16, 2011 7:40:59 GMT -5
I'll have to be honest, I was going to "cover up" for an incident that happened U/G once when I was leading hand Electrician, problem was one of my lads got burned on live conductors. A NO NO!
Problem was when I called out the pit to the swing shift U/M, he said they had sent him to hospital, after that it was "by the book" The hospital sends a report back to the colliery Manager.
After the Inspector had seen and investigated the site of the accident, he was in conference with the Colliery Electrical Engineer, he wanted the young lecko fired and wanted to press charges under the Coal Mines Regulation Act. Their were extenuating circumstances and the Inspector did listen, and modified his conclusion. BUT, no accident must ever happen like this and he laid down stricter operating practices, which we had to follow, plus the obligatory lecture from our elec engineer.
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WV COAL
May 16, 2011 8:03:03 GMT -5
Post by dazbt on May 16, 2011 8:03:03 GMT -5
I've seen everything go wrong that can go wrong, I think we all have Daz, but not every shift..... ;D I think you might be exagerating just a bit there John
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WV COAL
May 16, 2011 8:26:58 GMT -5
Post by John on May 16, 2011 8:26:58 GMT -5
Well, I've never seen a shearer with a bow wave yet... ;D
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WV COAL
May 16, 2011 9:15:46 GMT -5
Post by dazbt on May 16, 2011 9:15:46 GMT -5
Well, I've never seen a shearer with a bow wave yet... ;D Strange that you should say that ................. I have, 1969(ish), Bullcliffe Wood I drove an AB 16 shearer off a flooded face. Noboby else would tackle it, myself and a guy called Jack Middleton from Barnsley Area Mech. Team brought it into the tail gate through 12" of water, you'll have to pick something a bit more exotic than a bow wave. AB 16s are submersible after all. Plus, a prototype machine was developed using two bi di gearheads with a modified cutting drum between the two, the intention of it being towed by a boat, cutting a trough into the English Channel sea bed into which the cable would be laid, it was tested underwater in a Leicstershire quarry but never made it to The Channel............ so I suppose that had a bow wave as well ................. next ??
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WV COAL
May 16, 2011 12:02:08 GMT -5
Post by John on May 16, 2011 12:02:08 GMT -5
Did the "Channel dint driver" get water money.... ;D
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WV COAL
May 16, 2011 12:39:11 GMT -5
Post by dazbt on May 16, 2011 12:39:11 GMT -5
Did the "Channel dint driver" get water money.... ;D Those were desperate times John, Anderson Strathclyde had bought out an engineering company that dealt mainly in marine hydraulic applications, Caley Hydraulics. All existing Anderson field service staff were informed that they could expect to be 're-routed' to work on all aspects of this new enterprise, The Channel trenching project being one of them, offshore drill rigs being another, but when it was announced that Caley had won a contract to fit out submarines all the Anderson Strathclyde field service staff threatened to submit notices of resignation ........ based primarily on the fact that they were all well aware of the abundance of oil leaks on AS shearers in underground applications and no way were they going to risk having to deal with any type of leak on any AS underwater engineering projects, no matter how much 'water money' they were offered.
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WV COAL
May 18, 2011 13:47:10 GMT -5
Post by coalfire on May 18, 2011 13:47:10 GMT -5
I assure you gentlemen not all WV miners are this bad. We have some of the best in the world. Some of our world records speak for this. I am just ashamed they show this on TV. No wonder they are going broke.
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WV COAL
May 18, 2011 16:06:44 GMT -5
Post by John on May 18, 2011 16:06:44 GMT -5
I don't think anyone here would doubt you Lannie, but that cobalt mine is definitely a one ring circus full of clowns. I cringe when I see that miner cutting and showering everyone with sparks. One shuttle car!! and no spare cables, plus no one who seems to have a clue in charge. I can't see them lasting much longer, either they will have an explosion, or the operation will go bankrupt. Doesn't anyone wear dust masks in US mines? In the last episode, 5, the standin foreman had black lung and still doesn't wear any breathing protection.... We used disposable masks at the last mine I worked at, I'd grab a box from the stores at the beginning of the workweek before going underground. That gave me plenty and spares in case any of the crew I worked with had forgotten to get any. Black lung is almost unknown in Australian collieries. Mind you, we had good dust suppression on the machines and delivery points on all of the belts! Where a miner was cutting in a heading we didn't use brattice to ventilate the heading, we used a fan and vent tubes which had by law to be right up as far as was possible to the end of the heading. The men stuck rigidly to that law, as nobody liked working in dust. Albeit a limited amount due to the head sprays.
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WV COAL
May 18, 2011 18:52:30 GMT -5
Post by dazbt on May 18, 2011 18:52:30 GMT -5
Well, here goes, I have never been to WV but I have worked 'briefly' in America at coal mines in three other states, Colorado, Utah and New Mexico, albeit quite a few years ago now, 1980 to be precise. I wouldn't want to believe anything other than since then a great deal of change has been made to the way in which US coal mining has progressed, both in terms of safety and production, but, I have to say that at the time of my being there I was more than disappointed with what I witnessed. I had previous experience of working in what I had until then considered to be pretty 'dismal' conditions in numerous UK mines and even worse conditions in Indian coal mines, but I found it difficult to believe some of the shortcomings, both in terms of coal mining ability and more importantly working safety that I experienced in US mines. The first task I faced in a Colorado mine was to fit PFF (pick face flushing) cutting drums to an AM500 mechanically hauled DERDS (the only working machine of its type in the world), this machine had worked for more than one year with cutting drums without any kind of integral dust suppression system and totally inadequate alternative dust suppression methods, the 'inspectorate' had initially condemned the machine operation due to dust make but had then allowed production to continue for almost a year on the promise of the mine owners eventually purchasing and fitting PFF drums. Coincidental with my time there a major operation to replace every chock leg was ongoing, almost unbelievably the face was allowed to continue with most of the support legs bent at almost ninety degrees in the top section of the three stage telescopic leg, providing barely enough clearance to get the machine through, the face was a complete shambles, totally dangerous. Seam extraction was about 2.8m and the coal spalled almost throughout to a depth of 1m without any sort of adequate protection. One strip was considered sufficient for a shift and could without any doubt have been tripled but the faceworkers could not be encouraged to deviate from that one strip. Idiotically (in my opinion) the machine operators insisted in the ritual of going in and out of the blind ends to clean up five times because they had been shown how to do that originally by a 'company rep', I showed how the machine could clean up with two passes but the operators insisted that five was the way that they had been taught and continued to do that unnecessarily adding almost one hour to each strip. During my time there I noticed a ‘protuberance’ from both si8des of each face tannoy signal box, when I asked what these were I was informed that they were methane sensors ………… a great idea apart from the fact that every one of them was ‘stuffed’ with either chewing gum or tobacco, on the basis that they worked ‘too well’ and resulted in switching off the face power far too often, ‘Catch 22 ?’. At one point a damaged cable in the main gate stopped production and I went to help the ‘fitter/electrician’ repair it, I assisted him (an English guy by the way) in sawing off the ends, fitting connector tubes on each core and shrink sleeves over each of these, he had a hand held gas canister type blow torch to be used to apply a naked flame to apply heat shrink the insulation to each core and a spark type igniter to light it, the main gate air flow caused problems in lighting this torch, so he disappeared for a couple of minutes and eventually came back with a cigarette lighter ………………. that particular mine was closed some short time after my visit there as a result of extremely sad circumstances. I later went on to NM and worked in a fairly major coal mine there where circumstances weren’t a great deal better. I wouldn't dispute Coalfire's statement that WV coalmines are quite different to what is shown in these episodes but at5 the same time i would point out the fact that production records aren't always compatable to safety records.
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WV COAL
May 19, 2011 6:47:16 GMT -5
Post by John on May 19, 2011 6:47:16 GMT -5
Interesting Daz, seems we were "spoiled" or was it our employers drilled it into us about safety. Odd though, as I worked for a private coal company in Australia, they were what I class as a very poor company when it came to industrial relations, they also had a sad record where safety and production came into the picture, BUT, we did get the stick if we were caught breaking the rules and they did provide us with the equipment. I can say I never had to lie on the PPM records and the equipment was never in a dangerous condition, in fact it was always in a safe condition.
I also enjoyed the fact in Australia that they had similar qualifications for Mine Managers, Under Managers and Deputies, including Mine Surveyors and after the new MCRA, electricians and mechanics. Elec Engineers and Mech Engineers had to have a "Mine Electricians Certificate" which was an Engineers ticket similar to the UK's too. I was tempted to go back to school and study for it at one stage.
My thoughts are qualifications were probably what made the mines we worked in a lot safer, as these men tempered the law with logic, plus they risked their livelihood and freedom if they strayed to far from the safety path.
Also thinking back, Managers had a lot on their plate, a job, even if I was qualified, I doubt I'd like to do. The pressures must have been tremendous at a large colliery! It's alright to say he delegated authority, but at the end of the day, he would be the one in the "dock" if a major accident occurred at his mine.
A friend of mine I worked with in the UK was UnderManager in Charge at Wongawilli, NSW, he already had his 2nd class certificate he'd earned in the UK and was studying for the Managers ticket in NSW. He was telling me the main hurdle he was facing was one "block" surveying, which was giving him troubles, he said his maths weren't the best and trig was a bugbear. I lost contact with him when I left that colliery, last I heard he'd moved to Queensland.
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Post by dazbt on Nov 9, 2011 8:54:43 GMT -5
"Everything comes ter them as waits", here it is showing on Sky Discovery Channel in the UK at last, I think the first episode started this morning, repeated tonight at 11.00pm.
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Mick
Shotfirer.
Posts: 163
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Post by Mick on Nov 9, 2011 9:42:41 GMT -5
I saw it on virgin last night. Mick.
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WV COAL
Nov 9, 2011 12:59:21 GMT -5
Post by John on Nov 9, 2011 12:59:21 GMT -5
Absolutely incredible, how do they get away with that, kept coming to me when I watched it all...
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WV COAL
Nov 9, 2011 14:27:14 GMT -5
Post by Wheldale on Nov 9, 2011 14:27:14 GMT -5
Was they cutting coal without water? I saw some sparks fly! Also couldn't believe the damaged cable either!
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WV COAL
Nov 9, 2011 15:45:17 GMT -5
Post by John on Nov 9, 2011 15:45:17 GMT -5
Was they cutting coal without water? I saw some sparks fly! Also couldn't believe the damaged cable either! I thought that at first, but no they do have sprays, the motors are water cooled. I cringed when they showered the heading with sparks. Yes that cable repair gave me the willies, when in Australia we used to use Scotchcasts on trailing cables if it wasn't near the machine and wasn't in a place that would bend. We could work with that repair until a maintenance shift could change it out, but that was only on the longwall equipment, miners and shuttlecars had to have a cable change. That all stopped sometime in the late 1980's, damaged cable, change it. We were forbidden to use Scotchcasts on trailing cables after that..Odd, as they are just as good as the cable itself if installed correctly.
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WV COAL
Nov 9, 2011 15:55:57 GMT -5
Post by dazbt on Nov 9, 2011 15:55:57 GMT -5
Was they cutting coal without water? I saw some sparks fly! Also couldn't believe the damaged cable either! The water/dust supression set up didn't seem all that effective on the CM shown in the film, but even with the best of PFF (pick face flushing) systems it isn't always possible to prevent 'sparking'. Obviously it depends on what is being cut, quartz, ironstone and pyrite inclusions will create sparks when struck by a cutting drum pick even if saturated by water, the 'life span' of the spark is reduced but not the initiation of it. Anderson Strathclyde spent a deal of time and effort developing cutting element water systems designed not only to suppress dust make, but also reduce the risk and effective result of sparking at pick point, particulary in the buttock shearer applications where the risk of ignitions was greatly increased, even then, in certain seam conditions the amount of sparks produced resulted in 'Catherine Wheel' displays and even more dramatically, serious ignitions of methane accumulations. (Kiveton Park Two Foot Seam springs to mind).
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WV COAL
Nov 9, 2011 15:59:02 GMT -5
Post by dazbt on Nov 9, 2011 15:59:02 GMT -5
Absolutely incredible, how do they get away with that, kept coming to me when I watched it all... and to think that they would all have been on their best behaviour knowing that the cameras were on them, imagine the standards when the film crew weren't in attendance.
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WV COAL
Nov 9, 2011 17:16:12 GMT -5
Post by John on Nov 9, 2011 17:16:12 GMT -5
Absolutely incredible, how do they get away with that, kept coming to me when I watched it all... and to think that they would all have been on their best behaviour knowing that the cameras were on them, imagine the standards when the film crew weren't in attendance. You could be right there too Daz, but MSHA also watched the videos and saw several violations of the coal mines Act and cited the company using the TV film crew video as evidence... ;D
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WV COAL
Nov 9, 2011 17:28:39 GMT -5
Post by dazbt on Nov 9, 2011 17:28:39 GMT -5
and to think that they would all have been on their best behaviour knowing that the cameras were on them, imagine the standards when the film crew weren't in attendance. You could be right there too Daz, but MSHA also watched the videos and saw several violations of the coal mines Act and cited the company using the TV film crew video as evidence... ;D Yes I knew that J, I posted the original link if I recall correctly; "Repercussions; washingtonexaminer.com/entertainm....atching-coal-tvAll the World's a stage." the above link seems to have been 'dismantled' but it did relate to the citations gleaned from the original showings of the films.
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Clive
Shotfirer.
Posts: 168
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WV COAL
Jan 7, 2012 18:26:07 GMT -5
Post by Clive on Jan 7, 2012 18:26:07 GMT -5
just to play devils advacate here. Its a film about a colliery. Most folk, including my missus dont know the ins and outs. I did try telling her when I came home but she just found it...well boring. But she, and the kids are riveted to the show. Its telly after all. Nobody wants to watch clive expetly cut and fill off 10 tubs with no incedent. TBH most of the private lads i know, self included ca't see much wrong soz. just the way it is. no work no brass. Used blow lamps me sel ug. done most things i shouldnt just to earn a crust. when i was at ncb back in early 80's as a apprentice, you couldnt go nowhere in pit. Iremember one burnley fair, they wanted a d 16 stater taking up one of the faces. Just off bottom of drift, pu mg and hand to fitter. It was a heck of a conflabbetween mech and engineer to alow me to take man rider then walk 500 yds up m6 mg and hand stater to mech. in the 90s at one private pit the owners 12 year old walker into my heading and told me not to fire as survayors were coming. had wives down pit and kids, but they were well looked after. Things are different, but remember it is just telly
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Post by John on Jan 8, 2012 9:03:37 GMT -5
just to play devils advacate here. Its a film about a colliery. Most folk, including my missus dont know the ins and outs. I did try telling her when I came home but she just found it...well boring. But she, and the kids are riveted to the show. Its telly after all. Nobody wants to watch clive expetly cut and fill off 10 tubs with no incedent. TBH most of the private lads i know, self included ca't see much wrong soz. just the way it is. no work no brass. Used blow lamps me sel ug. done most things i shouldnt just to earn a crust. when i was at ncb back in early 80's as a apprentice, you couldnt go nowhere in pit. Iremember one burnley fair, they wanted a d 16 stater taking up one of the faces. Just off bottom of drift, pu mg and hand to fitter. It was a heck of a conflabbetween mech and engineer to alow me to take man rider then walk 500 yds up m6 mg and hand stater to mech. in the 90s at one private pit the owners 12 year old walker into my heading and told me not to fire as survayors were coming. had wives down pit and kids, but they were well looked after. Things are different, but remember it is just telly I worked in private enterprise in Australia Clive, although the second of the two collieries was owned by the NSW government run by the Electricity Commission of NSW, it was still run as a private profit earning mine. The first one was owned by AI&S a subsidiary of BHP most of the equipment was pretty old but well serviced. Miners were taken to the surface workshops every so many thousand hours, stripped to the bed frame, cracks welded parts replaced, bearings changed out, new hoses etc etc. Then assembled and painted. When returned underground the overhauled machines performed as new. Standards were very high both mining and engineering. Second colliery was pretty new, when I arrived the longwall had completed 4.5 panels, first two were close to drift bottom and were short lifts of about 5 to 600 yards. 3 went to the boundary, about 700 yards, then each panel got progressively longer. Development was with heliminers and Noyes Hydocars (shuttlecars). We did have a Lee Norse miner which was hardly ever used, I don't think anyone liked it, especially the fitters....LOL Last I recall of it being used during my time, was to start the bottom of the new belt drift. It was used until they couldn't get anymore traction on the steep drift.
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WV COAL
Jan 8, 2012 15:49:09 GMT -5
Post by dazbt on Jan 8, 2012 15:49:09 GMT -5
just to play devils advacate here. Its a film about a colliery. Most folk, including my missus dont know the ins and outs. I did try telling her when I came home but she just found it...well boring. But she, and the kids are riveted to the show. Its telly after all. Nobody wants to watch clive expetly cut and fill off 10 tubs with no incedent. TBH most of the private lads i know, self included ca't see much wrong soz. just the way it is. no work no brass. Used blow lamps me sel ug. done most things i shouldnt just to earn a crust. when i was at ncb back in early 80's as a apprentice, you couldnt go nowhere in pit. Iremember one burnley fair, they wanted a d 16 stater taking up one of the faces. Just off bottom of drift, pu mg and hand to fitter. It was a heck of a conflabbetween mech and engineer to alow me to take man rider then walk 500 yds up m6 mg and hand stater to mech. in the 90s at one private pit the owners 12 year old walker into my heading and told me not to fire as survayors were coming. had wives down pit and kids, but they were well looked after. Things are different, but remember it is just telly In fairness having young lads as runners was probably cheaper than installing telephones though Clive Did the NCB or BC ever employ women underground?
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WV COAL
Sept 26, 2012 6:40:01 GMT -5
Post by dazbt on Sept 26, 2012 6:40:01 GMT -5
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WV COAL
Sept 26, 2012 8:14:13 GMT -5
Post by John on Sept 26, 2012 8:14:13 GMT -5
Makes one realize how lucky we are, 51 isn't old, years of working underground took their toll on him.
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