Question's For Eleceng.

[John]

Cotgraves abandonment plans show drivages into the Parkgate (Piper) Seam, were any faces worked in the seam?? And was it abandoned before working the Blackshale??

Another question, in the shaft sinking records, most of the seams in the "upper measures" (actually the middle measures as Notts was missing the upper seams.) Why weren't some of those seams worked? Many were pretty thick and were of good quality coal.

[eleceng]

Blackshale was drifted down from Deep Soft level. 1 face K1's was opened but had severe geological problems. An old miner told me the cleavage to the seam was wrong, it was against the grain of the coal & there would always be problems. It stood at one point for 18 weeks with a massive roof fall. It was eventually closed. Before the decision to close the pit a new face was headed out, AFC & roof supports installed. Never went into production.

I think the reason for not developing higher seam was water problems. Too close to water bearing Bunter sandstone. When the shafts were sunk a freezing technique had to be used which delayed the mine opening for 2 years.

Plans had been made to go back into Deep Soft but never materialised as the decision to close was made. The powers that be decided Cotgrave was losing too much money. Every ton of coal was sent to Ratcliffe power station. It was low sulphur level which is what they required. I personally felt that if they had persevered with Deep Soft the pit would have become viable again but alas the decision had been made. We all know the reason behind it.

eleceng 

[John]

I think Top Hard was above the Bunter, reason old man Clifton never worked it as it was too close to the surface at Clifton and surface drainage water was seeping through.

I've a copy of the Cotgrave's booklet on Blackshale, looked promising, but then so many NCB booklets showed Utopian conditions...LOL

If my memory is right, weren't all the trunk belts Huwood TB120's?
And did you ever go with manless transfer points, Huwood Mk1A system??

I worked with the Huwood Mk1A at Boulby, pretty trouble free, only problem we had was relay contacts tarnishing in the salt atmosphere, all silver, so we had a relay changeout on the 3 monthly PM examinations, pulled relays went to surface for full contact burnishing and testing, and taken U/G by the elec who had a 3 monthly exam on a Mk1A.

I noticed in the Blackshale booklet, that voltage was at 6.6Kv, did the whole pit change over from 3.3KV to 6.6KV?? I'd presume also you used the Brush SF6 switchgear?
We had a foreman who refused to press the button to fire the breaker after the springs had been charged.
He'd had a bad experience with a transformer mounted SF6, it had a major insulation failure...I used to laugh at him when He took cover while I pressed the button, it was so funny.

In later years I wondered what he'd have been like on 11KV breakers, having seen what happens with those with an insulation failure.

[John]

I was wrong, the shaft records record the Bunter started at 536ft 4" and extended to the Permian at 818ft 7" and the "middle coal measures" started at 846ft 10" below bank level.
What puzzles me is the Parkgate Seam, I figured it as the two Piper Seams merging to form the Parkgate, but the 1st Piper was 9" in the shaft boring, and the 2nd Piper was 10".

Now on the Cotgrave abandonment plans, 43's face at Clifton is shown on Cotgraves Parkgate seam workings.
43's was around 36 inches thick.

What was the Parkgate seam thickness??
I'm not sure if Cliftons Piper was a merging of 1st and 2nd Piper, but from what I gather the Piper seam early workings were around 5ft-6ft thick around the south west side of the pit near Ruddington area. But like all seams in that pit, thinned off to the south east end where 43's was. That was from West Bridgeford on to Plumtree.

Now in the last deep Hard face Clifton had, on the south east side, we were working around 42 inches. The M/G was to have been driven through to a face line in Cotgrave as an emergency escape route sometime in 1968, was it 57's in Cotgrave???
Clifton was closed before that was undertaken.

The shaft borehole logs of Cotgrave don't match the shaft sinking records, the Blackshale seam is recorded as 1ft thick, I'm sure the BGS has missed a zero off that figure.

[John]

Found it! Looking at borehole logs south of Cotgrave lists Parkgate seam as 1.2 metres thick @ 441.83 M. Next seam listed is Tupton Roof Coal, then the Tupton seam.

So the Parkgate is the 2nd Piper seam.


Another borehole log marked as Bellvue, SE of Cotgrave to prove all seams down to the Blackshale, shows Blackshale and Ashgate merged into one seam 1.5 m thick at 673.48 metres deep.

The Parkgate is merged with the Hospital seam and is 1.49m thick at 619.11M deep.
The Top Hard seam is 3.0M thick!! at 464.34M deep.

[eleceng]

Hi John. You're right, Blackshale was the merger of Parkgate & Ashgate. Distribution was 3.3Kv, 1100v on face.

6.6Kv was installed as distribution for 55's South side Deep Hard. Ran between 54's & 56's, old faces. We did use Brush SF6's. Face was 1100v. Main machine was BJD ace & was fully automatic. a success.

Advanced head was set up. can't remember the m/c used.

Now Bestwood seams as I remember were High Main & Main Bright (very thin seam) not very successful. Tupton was mined in early years, long before my time. Think it had escape route to Linby.

[eleceng]

Forgot about 57's. Think it was to be used as link to Clifton, bat was abandoned because of geological problems. Plans were made to use 63's when it went into production. That had to be abandoned due to a fire.

A tale about 57's. The face never produced well, it was known as 1 run wonder. never achieved optimum production.

One Monday, dayshift, Eric Drury gave me instructions to go to the face and find out just what the problems were. All problems, elec, mech, & mining. He said, "you were trained as a mech-elec at Bestwood & should know enough about mining procedures. He wanted a report on his desk before I went home. Nobby West Deputy eng said he would do this, leaving me to do other jobs to organise. The following morning, Tuesday, Eric said," where is my report. I was furious. Said to Nobby, "what had he been doing". Told Eric he would have his report today.

Anyway, did the report & took it to his office. He read through it & asked what I was doing about electrical problems? Said minor problems were being sorted out immediately, & bigger problems sorted out with some organisation. Come with me, straight to manager's office' Ken Butt. Eric gave him the report. Praised it & praised me for doing it. Glad that someone was taking an interest. Eric promptly exploded. "I don't pay my engineers to sort out other departments problems. With that he got up & walked out with me trailing behind, tail between my legs. "That's how you treat them.

[John]

I thought it was 57's, 41's at Clifton was a hell of a way in, conditions were first class including gate roads which had held up pretty good with no needs for backripping or dinting. In fact from memory, the T/G from start to face looked like it had only just been driven!! Used to have lots of that "sheet" fungus growing from the lagging boards for most of the way, and stunk like a mushroom farm...LOL
M/G was weighted in places, but was still possible to walk standing upright the whole length.
41's must have finished at the boundary between Clifton and Cotgrave's take, there were three Sutcliffe ? Tigress conveyor drives and I'm convinced it was Cliftons first mechanized face.
It used Dowty Roofmasters, two and three legs, oil powered not soluble oil, AB16/125 shearer with an AB15 precutter mounted ahead of the shearer. Don't ask!!! I still haven't a clue why!! It was dropped off eventually and proven it was not needed. Of course back then, the face was supplied with 3.3KV and transformed down to 550V.
41's had the first FLP dry type transformers at Clifton.

I actually had the opportunity to overhaul one of the transformers on an emergency service, when I worked for Wilson Fords. Lol Adcock, who was elec eng in charge at Clifton was an eng at area and had accompanied the Transformer, last time I ever bumped into him.


I see now shearers are now rated at 3.3Kv, and one face in Australia has an 11Kv AFC drive motor, I wonder, had the NCB/BC still been running, what they would be using as standard now??

[bulwellbrian]

Jan 22, 2015 15:46:38 GMT -5 John said:

Found it! Looking at borehole logs south of Cotgrave lists Parkgate seam as 1.2 metres thick @ 441.83 M. Next seam listed is Tupton Roof Coal, then the Tupton seam.

So the Parkgate is the 2nd Piper seam.


Another borehole log marked as Bellvue, SE of Cotgrave to prove all seams down to the Blackshale, shows Blackshale and Ashgate merged into one seam 1.5 m thick at 673.48 metres deep.

The Parkgate is merged with the Hospital seam and is 1.49m thick at 619.11M deep.
The Top Hard seam is 3.0M thick!! at 464.34M deep.

The Parkgate is a union of the 1st & 2nd Piper seams.

Bestwood never worked the Tupton seam. It originally worked the Top Hard then the High Main. It then attempted the Main Bright (clean but very thin) then the High Hazles which was very dirty with a soft floor, I was sent to sample the ROM from the first HH face it was grey, the machine was deep in the floor, it was a dead loss nothing like the quality at Gedling.

[colly0410]

Interesting posts, thanks for posting them. Our training gallery at Moorgreen TC was in the Piper seam, but whether it was first or second Piper I've got no idea.

[John]

Jan 26, 2015 15:59:53 GMT -5 colly0410 said:

Interesting posts, thanks for posting them. Our training gallery at Moorgreen TC was in the Piper seam, but whether it was first or second Piper I've got no idea.

1st Piper my guess would be Steve. Most places it was the thicker seam.

Silverhill Colly, the first Piper was 32" @ 300 yards, 2nd Piper has no information, I don't have any information about the 2nd Piper for Hucknall, Linby, Top Pit, Pyehill etc. But 1st Piper gets logged with depths and thicknesses.

Looks like I'll have to go to the borehole logs and shaft sinking logs.

[John]

Moorgreen No2 shaft deepened April 1940, completed 4th Aug 1945, 1st Piper 2' 11" @ 886' 8" 2nd Piper 1' 6" @ 953' 2", so I'd hazard a guess they worked 1st Piper.

[eleceng]

Cotgrave faces: Deep Soft, 53s; 2s; 3s; 4s;5s. Deep Hard, 7s; 9s; 57s; 59s; 61s; 63s, all East off Loco & C/V roads. 52s; 54s; 55s; 56s; West. Headed, South off C/V road & return, 50s. Headed off 63s M/G & T/G, 71s; 72s. Oddity, was 36s, can only describe as North West. All faces were 550v, except 55s, 1100v. Blackshale, K1s, K2s was headed out but never fully installed, pit closed. Hope you can understand this! GEB's & Transformer mounted on Pantech, behind the stage loader. Transformer originally was inbye of GEB's but was later moved outbye side. 3.3Kv isolation was by Reyrolle switch (can't remember the type). never more than 100yds away.  

, ,

[John]

I recall all the GEB's mounted on pantechs on mono rail mounts, with the transformer inbye end with an exemption for it to be that close to the face, very large shotfiring guard on the inbye end of the transformers.

One odd thing I could never get, the floor lift and weight on the roads in Deep Hard, and yet on the Clifton side, we got none of it, very rarely saw any floor lift in deep hard, or heavy weighting of roadways.
Although old miners used to say, you can work south with no problems and work north is impossible..Never questioned why, just didn't make much sense to me. I can understand the cleavage of coal, they found that in hand got days with picks, easier to work with the cleavage than at right angles to it.

[Wheldale]

With regards to floor lift, was the workings at Clifton and Cotgrave at right angles to each other or was they generally in the same direction?

[John]

Jan 27, 2015 11:33:12 GMT -5 Wheldale said:

With regards to floor lift, was the workings at Clifton and Cotgrave at right angles to each other or was they generally in the same direction?

Clifton was heading south towards Cotgrave, Cotgrave was heading north and north west towards Clifton's workings. 51's at Clifton couldn't have been very far from the boundary between takes, and 41's probably 1/2 a mile from Cotgrave, right at the boundary of the take.

[Wheldale]

I remember years ago reading about something called lines of stress. I think it was discovered in Australia. Basically in an area of coal, a road driven in a certain direction will be free of floor blow etc, but veer of that line and the road will suffer from floor blow, bad ripping etc, the severity depending on how far off that line of stress the road was. There was a study undertaken by British Coal in the late 80's early 90's that showed which direction was best to develop future faces at each colliery. Its a little bit of topic but just wondered if this was the reason behind the difference in conditions of Cotgrage and Clifton.

[John]

This was Clifton's 41's D/H face, bolder printing.Cotgrave's D/H workings to the right and below, where you can't see, as time goes on I'll scan the whole lot and form them into interlinking links.

The T/G was swung in to narrow the face sometime 1964/5, not sure why now, but the workings to the south west were probably 6's, a handgot face as was 8's, all came off of 2's main road in the 1st Piper seam.

[John]

Jan 27, 2015 13:05:14 GMT -5 Wheldale said:

I remember years ago reading about something called lines of stress. I think it was discovered in Australia. Basically in an area of coal, a road driven in a certain direction will be free of floor blow etc, but veer of that line and the road will suffer from floor blow, bad ripping etc, the severity depending on how far off that line of stress the road was. There was a study undertaken by British Coal in the late 80's early 90's that showed which direction was best to develop future faces at each colliery. Its a little bit of topic but just wondered if this was the reason behind the difference in conditions of Cotgrage and Clifton.

I think you might mean the "pressure arch" first noted by Wollongong University, mining section. It's something you want to avoid when retreating as it will cause major roof falls in the gate roads, trick was to "throw" the weight into the goaf, that's achieved by pressure settings on face supports.
When I was at Wongawilli Colliery just south of Wollongong, we ended up retreating, pillar extraction. Three roads were driven to the boundary, full face height parallel to each other, far left about 100 yards from the centre road, then the other road about 20 yards over. At the boundary, a road was driven at right angles across all three roads, it's job was to bleed gasses into the returns, so called a bleeder heading. Next 12 yards back was driven a second heading parallel to the bleeder, that was to be the start of the goaf.
12 yards back we drove another road straight through, then pull the miner back 12 yards and start driving through to the goaf heading, this block was known as the fender, and would be lifted off back to the centre roadway, which was the belt road in 12 yard blocks. The fender would give support to the roof.

While lifting off, we'd get some horrendous bumps, floor relieving itself of stress, it would lift a few inches too.

The only noises I remember from retreat longwalling, was the goaf caving in. I don't recall any floor lift, either on the main roads or gate roads.
We did have a major roof fall in the M/G end of one longwall, I think it was LW8, smashed the beam stage loader and damaged the cables and hoses from the pantech just outbye. Was one hell of a mess and caused us several weeks of downtime. That was caused by the pressure arch over the gate end.
Tons of timber were used to fill the void.

[Wheldale]

I don't think it was the pressure arch I was reading about. Below is copied from the Welsh Coal mines site, its talking about Hatfield Main but generally this is similar to what I read, I remember there was an article in Coal News about it when roof bolting was taking off in the UK.

"existing longwall mines in the uk get specialist "geotechnical engineers" in and measure the stresses within the surrounding strata etc - this data is then anylised and it tells them the lines of max/min stress - its important for roof/rib bolting patterns and best direction of retreat

eg driving a roadway along the line of max stress produces lots of horizontal stress bulking the ribs etc

lots of factors effect it - faults - monoclines - depth and especially old working above!

its generally linked/similar to cleat

at hatfield colliery one such company spun the barnsley faces through 90 degrees - different to most other faces at the mine."

[John]

I recall CSIRO, an Australian government department having sensors set with roofbolting to measure ground movement in one of our longwalls when we started retreating with the face, the scientists were there every shift taking measurements from the sensors as we approached them. There may be a paper on the project at the Wollongong Uni site.
The first two longwall faces at Angus Place were near pit bottom, parallel to the drifts, both broke many records. LW3 through LW10?? were at right angle to the drifts, then just before I left, the last face I worked on was at right angle to 3-10. Now looking at the companies maps, they are on the opposite side of the block.
They also have boreholes to carry the HT feeds down from a surface substation, because of the distance inbye they are now. That's a practice American mines use.

[eleceng]

Jan 21, 2015 16:53:19 GMT -5 John said:

I think Top Hard was above the Bunter, reason old man Clifton never worked it as it was too close to the surface at Clifton and surface drainage water was seeping through.

I've a copy of the Cotgrave's booklet on Blackshale, looked promising, but then so many NCB booklets showed Utopian conditions...LOL

If my memory is right, weren't all the trunk belts Huwood TB120's?
And did you ever go with manless transfer points, Huwood Mk1A system??

I worked with the Huwood Mk1A at Boulby, pretty trouble free, only problem we had was relay contacts tarnishing in the salt atmosphere, all silver, so we had a relay changeout on the 3 monthly PM examinations, pulled relays went to surface for full contact burnishing and testing, and taken U/G by the elec who had a 3 monthly exam on a Mk1A.

I noticed in the Blackshale booklet, that voltage was at 6.6Kv, did the whole pit change over from 3.3KV to 6.6KV?? I'd presume also you used the Brush SF6 switchgear?
We had a foreman who refused to press the button to fire the breaker after the springs had been charged.
He'd had a bad experience with a transformer mounted SF6, it had a major insulation failure...I used to laugh at him when He took cover while I pressed the button, it was so funny.

In later years I wondered what he'd have been like on 11KV breakers, having seen what happens with those with an insulation failure.

[eleceng]

Hi John Yes trunk C/Vs were TB 120's, using Belmos KFD/KFG's air brake switchgear, later replaced with KFVD's. We used Winster manless system.

Story behind vacuum contactors. We had a breakdown with a district C/V KFD contactor, which delivered onto trunk belt. I arrived to find Unit, Group & Area Chief engineers' on job with district elec beginning to open the top door, isolater, having opened middle, control section, door. Asked what was he doing, he indicated the eng's told him to. I said give me the allen key & proceeded to open the bottom, contactor section, telling the eng's this is were the problem will be. One of the main HRC fuses had blown, which in turn had tripped back to pit bottom sub. Everything had been reset & new fuses being sent from pit top. Pulled the contactor out, removed arc chutes to reveal one of the moving contact tips had come loose & arced across causing fuse to blow & supply tripping. Area eng started to remonstrate at me, claiming poor maintenance. I told him " you're in my office now", and pointed out the difficulty in setting up these contactors & we often have this problem. "I'm not aware of the problem at other pits", he said. "That's because characters like our unit eng cover things up & don't tell the truth", I said. "OK clever clogs, what's the answer". "Vacuum contactors at £300 a go". Anyway, got things running again.

A few weeks later, I was rushing from 71's face to a trunk belt fault when I bumped into the same group of eng's on a pit visit again. You're bad luck buggers, why can't you stay on pit top. Area eng asked what was up. Told him & he said, better not keep you. "by the way you'll be getting your Vac contactors, made a few discreet enquiries & other pits were having the same troubles as the previous breakdown".  So it pays to tell the truth! 

,

[John]

Feb 5, 2015 14:59:16 GMT -5 eleceng said:

Hi John Yes trunk C/Vs were TB 120's, using Belmos KFD/KFG's air brake switchgear, later replaced with KFVD's. We used Winster manless system.

Story behind vacuum contactors. We had a breakdown with a district C/V KFD contactor, which delivered onto trunk belt. I arrived to find Unit, Group & Area Chief engineers' on job with district elec beginning to open the top door, isolater, having opened middle, control section, door. Asked what was he doing, he indicated the eng's told him to. I said give me the allen key & proceeded to open the bottom, contactor section, telling the eng's this is were the problem will be. One of the main HRC fuses had blown, which in turn had tripped back to pit bottom sub. Everything had been reset & new fuses being sent from pit top. Pulled the contactor out, removed arc chutes to reveal one of the moving contact tips had come loose & arced across causing fuse to blow & supply tripping. Area eng started to remonstrate at me, claiming poor maintenance. I told him " you're in my office now", and pointed out the difficulty in setting up these contactors & we often have this problem. "I'm not aware of the problem at other pits", he said. "That's because characters like our unit eng cover things up & don't tell the truth", I said. "OK clever clogs, what's the answer". "Vacuum contactors at £300 a go". Anyway, got things running again.

A few weeks later, I was rushing from 71's face to a trunk belt fault when I bumped into the same group of eng's on a pit visit again. You're bad luck buggers, why can't you stay on pit top. Area eng asked what was up. Told him & he said, better not keep you. "by the way you'll be getting your Vac contactors, made a few discreet enquiries & other pits were having the same troubles as the previous breakdown".  So it pays to tell the truth! 

,

I recall a KFD at Clifton on one of the trunk belts, can't say I recall it giving any trouble, most of the HV starters at Clifton were the Met Vicks, can't recall the model now, but large table type contactors with contacts immersed in transformer oil.

We used Belmos KFG's at Boulby for the continuous miners.

[John]

When I arrived at Cotgrave, there were two Clifton guys transferred the same time, Ernie Gerrard and Dave Watson, both middle aged Mech/Elecs, also a young apprentice, one of Trevor Shaw's Brothers, I think Brian? Shaw.
Do you recall any of them?? I'm presuming both Ernie and Dave have long since passed on by now. Dave was a big feller, broken nose ex paratrooper, Ernie was a pretty thin bloke.

There was also an electrician by the name of Agar, I think he was ex Wollaton. When I was about 12 yrs old we lived opposite his green grocers shop on Alfred Street South, I had a crush on his Daughter back then..

[eleceng]

Can vaguely remember Dave Watson but not the other two. Harold Agar worked regular afters in the pit bottom & bunker area. He also moved out to Costock & had a smallholding with pigs. He was friendly with Bill Maynard, comedian, who I met once when I went out to see Harold's spread'. I remember Dave George from Clifton, he stayed for some years. Was a great guy, easy to get on with.

[John]

Feb 5, 2015 15:54:52 GMT -5 eleceng said:

Can vaguely remember Dave Watson but not the other two. Harold Agar worked regular afters in the pit bottom & bunker area. He also moved out to Costock & had a smallholding with pigs. He was friendly with Bill Maynard, comedian, who I met once when I went out to see Harold's spread'. I remember Dave George from Clifton, he stayed for some years. Was a great guy, easy to get on with.

Couldn't remember whether Dave had gone to Cotgrave, His Son married a very old mate of mine's Daughter years back. First face I was on was with Dave, I was a real smart arse back then. We'd rode the gate belt out to the main road, was passed for manriding, so no problems, next belt was 2's No2, NOTICE said NO MANRIDING ON THIS BELT! Dave said "get on"
"It says no manriding, so I'll walk" LOL
There were some lagging boards broken, and that section of 2's was pretty low, next thing I was sat on I disagree , with loss of dignity.
After that I did as I was told.

I can still hear Dave's "chuckle".
His wife threatened to cut his nuts off with a carving knife once, same time all switchgear was being painted white, and everywhere you went, there were cherries drawn in the white painted surfaces...I don't know what Dave's wife would have done if she'd come face to face with Cherry. LOL


Hey, another name BRIAN LEE, was an electrician, he transferred to Clifton from Cotgrave around 1965/66'ish, his nickname was "Chippy". From what we gathered he'd had to leave Cotgrave to avoid a broken nose and black eyes. He left Clifton in a hurry too, owed a Deputy some money, nobody ever found out where he'd bolted too...LOL


Looks like Proboards software is playing up, three attempts to edit this post to no avail.
Should read, "There were some lagging boards broken, and that section of 2's was pretty low, next thing I was sat on arse, with loss of dignity".

[eleceng]

Yes I remember "Chippie Lee", he was at Bestwood, I knew him there. He moved to Cotgrave when it Bestwood closed. He was a fitter moved over as he was a mech/elec. Fly by night sort of bloke.

[John]

May 14, 2015 10:59:29 GMT -5 eleceng said:

Yes I remember "Chippie Lee", he was at Bestwood, I knew him there. He moved to Cotgrave when it Bestwood closed. He was a fitter moved over as he was a mech/elec. Fly by night sort of bloke.

I don't know if you know how he got that nickname. But his missus left him, and one day he fancied some home fried chips, he put the chip pan on and fell to sleep, needless to say the chip pan caught fire and set the kitchen ablaze. Nickname followed him around. LOL

Our U/M in charge knew him, I'm presuming they drank together at some stage in some pub or Miners Welfare. I had the misfortune of being assigned to him as his apprentice for a short time, and I was asked to stop back one afternoon shift to assist him. We were in the electric shop preparing materials for a job we had to get done underground when Dennis Ward the UM walked in, "Hello Dennis, how are you today" Brian asked him.

"Brian, when you talk to me at work it's Mr Ward, if you please, and not by first name".

Another instance, Clifton was clamping down on men leaving early with lame excuses, it was darts match night and we were on afters, although we finished at 7-30pm, "chippy" wanted to be gone by 6-30pm to catch the pub darts team bus.
I asked him how he was going to get an early ride, he winked at me and said "I've a great headache coming on, I banged my head this morning."
At the end of shift I found out off the surface elec "Chippy" had gone into the medical centre, told them his story, the attendant called Bestwood for the NCB ambulance, "Chippy" was protesting all he needed was a couple of aspirins and an early night, attendant sent him to hospital in the NCB ambulance and he was booked in for 24 hour surveillance!! It was a long while before he lived that one down.

He was certainly an odd character.
Wasn't long after that he did a "runner", for pit shutdown, he rented a caravan at Skeggy, or somewhere near there off one of our Deputy's. The Deputy foolishly told him to pay him after the holidays.
Never saw him again, no idea where he'd gone to, only assumed he'd done a quick transfer to another pit. The Deputy was on the warpath!!

[eleceng]

I vaguely remember Denis Ward, I think he was an overman at Bestwood. A nice man, easy to get on with.

Talking about addressing management as Mr. There was a young U/M started at Cotgrave in late 80s. I was introduced to him in the office's by Nobby West. I asked him his name. Mr soso, I said no your first name! Mr soso he said! In that case I am Mr Wolvin!!! He didn't seem to understand. Such was his self importance. He was from North Notts & when he was U/G he always had a deputies stick & he would wave it at miners when trying to tell them their job. I told him one day they would break it in half. One day we rode the cage out, his stick was in half!!!! LOL!!!!