|
Post by John on Feb 2, 2005 9:49:03 GMT -5
Merits of the machine...
|
|
|
Post by John on Feb 3, 2005 16:48:51 GMT -5
My thoughts are it was probably one of the best machines to enter UK pits, reliable, high production, pity it wasn't designed as a Bi Di shearer from the onset. An hour to cut a web, half an hour to "plough" back, then push the face over and advance the chocks.
|
|
|
Post by John on Feb 5, 2005 8:00:17 GMT -5
The shearer or Anderton Power Loader, was designed by John Anderton a Colliery Manager from St Helens, Lancashire in the early 1950's. The first shearer was installed at Ravenshead Colliery in the Rushy Seam in 1952 then used at Cronton Colliery, St Helens and at Golborne Colliery, Liegh.
|
|
|
Post by Gizmo on May 6, 2005 4:55:33 GMT -5
I can remember AB 16 Ranging Drum Shearers cutting in both directions Bi Di? on retreat faces and advancing faces no problem , that’s if my memory is still serving me right. Talking about AB 16 Shearers I still have copy of the AB 16 maintenance manual (Blue pocket book), I kept this as a souvenir from when I left the NCB in 1982.
|
|
|
Post by John on May 6, 2005 7:11:33 GMT -5
I can remember AB 16 Ranging Drum Shearers cutting in both directions Bi Di? on retreat faces and advancing faces no problem , that’s if my memory is still serving me right. Talking about AB 16 Shearers I still have copy of the AB 16 maintenance manual (Blue pocket book), I kept this as a souvenir from when I left the NCB in 1982. Right on Gizmo, don't forget the BJD Magnamatic too. There were several makers of the Anderton Shearer, German Eichoff, a Japanese made one and Joy Manufacturing also got into the market, I think the Poles and Russians even made their versions too. Sadly Anderson Boyes is no more and it's later company Anderson Strathclyde is now owned by DBT a German company. The 16/125 became the 16/200 and then grew out of all proportion. I worked on the AM400 and AM500 as an electrician at Angus Place Colliery in NSW Oz. Daz worked for Anderson Strathclyde for a while, so is our resident expert. I too have the 16/125 handbook, I also have the Conveyor mounted trepanner handbook and the old red book on the old heavy duty trepanners, fine machines too in their hayday! Sadly, I know of no company making trepanners nowadays.
|
|
|
Post by dazb on May 6, 2005 15:44:50 GMT -5
Don’t forget the French……………….one should never forget the French, Louis X1V (his palace and ballet role as the Sun God), The Bastille, Madame Guillotine, the cake, the tunnel, Beaujolais, their frog’s legs, “Ello Ello”, De gaul that beat England in 2004 and of course Sagem and their later “Panda” shearer, not to mention the Chinese. Re Trepanners, I think that BJD also made a trepanner, or at least a trepan-shearer. I also seem to recollect that the first AB16” BiDi shearer was a single ended fixed drum shearer as opposed to the Uni Di fixed drum lagging shaft concept of the origin Anderton Shearer. The original “ranging” aspect was a goaf side hinged underframe with an hydraulically powered face side wedge that raised or lowered the cutting height by means of advancing or retracting a steel wedge between the shearer and the hinged goaf side of the underframe, the later “improved” version was a haulage end underframe hinged arrangement whereby a set of hydraulic rams were used to lift or lower the cutting drum gearhead against the pivot point at the haulage end, (The Bretby Bridge). A couple of definitions to round off;- A While……………………….22 Years!! An Expert ………………………the only guy there at the time who was in possesion of an adjustable spanner !! An AB 16 manual of any vintage is…………………………….. the one detailing the original “Mechanical Reciprocating Shuttle Flow Control Valve” as opposed to the later “Flow Valve”, a bit like the Queen Victorian Sovereigns of her Young, Jubilee, Bun and Veiled years editions. Collector’s items would also Include the AB16 Mks 2 and 4, I would guess that anybody with a copy of the AB16 Mk 3 manual could get ready to become wealthy in much the same way that an owner of a 1933 Sovereign could.
|
|
|
Post by John on May 6, 2005 15:59:33 GMT -5
I'll have to check my old manuals Daz, to see what version it is. Yep, BJD did make a trepan shearer, there's a piccie in Mechanisation at the Coalface, the 1962 NCB training booklet.
|
|
|
Post by Gizmo on May 10, 2005 10:04:14 GMT -5
Admin and Daz thanks for the info The RDS’s I remember consisted of an AB16/200 with a two-speed gearbox and single ranging drum, I have seen these machines manage up to seven Bi DI shears a shift on a 220 yd retreat Face. They used to literally fly on bull weeks (holiday pay week) Advance Faces normally had an AB16/125? SDS (Sumping Drum Shearer) at the Tail Gate to cutout the stable under the rip and an AB 16/200 RDS to cut the longwall. As an ex Face Electrician one of the breakdown problems I used to dread on the AB RDS was when the internal emergency stop rods used to bend usually in the two-speed gearbox section of the machine. This produced the symptom of the machine cutting a few yards and then stopping or even worst stopping intermittently making it difficult to find the fault. I can remember at one time we even had to split the machine to replace one of these dreaded rods. Mind you it did not help the situation that we used to connect a copper shear pin device to the emergency stop chain, if the trailing cable got stuck anywhere the copper pin would shear, the shear pin mechanism would then pull on the emergency stop chain therefore stopping the Shearer. This used to put a lot of stress on the internal rods as the Shearer slowly came to a halt making a bowstring of the emergency stop chain.
|
|
|
Post by John on May 10, 2005 11:24:41 GMT -5
The old AB16/125 was no trouble, probably one of the most reliables machines ever designed electrically and mechanically. Biggest problem as Daz will state was during the 60's on the old PL agreement, the driver would cut in "flit" using both pumps to max. Then we had problems like burst htdraulic engine pipes. When we had the new AM500 at Angus Place being the longwall electrician on nights later to be leading hand on nights too, I had to attend a course. I don't recall the elec engineer who was giving us the BS on this machine. The machine was designed by Alex Downey, who Daz knows, and the haulage was controlled by a small swash plate motor via a mass of electronics in the main chamber. It comprised of three individual power supplies delivering three stabilized voltages. All three power packs were right at the back of the chamber!! To get to them, one had to remove everything from the chamber, and take my word for it, there was a lot of gear Anderson's had crammed into that box!!! "How often do the power packs burn out?" was my question! "stupid place to put a power pack knowing the problems they cause" I stated.... "Our power supplies are over engineered." he said! "they will never give you trouble".......Hey Daz, he wasn't a Scot either!! He really admonished me and made this Pommy electrician look for a rock to climb under! Longwall 8 had been installed and was running just fine, the AM500 was cutting coal like Alex's had designed it to. Week two, I came on shift to find out my job for the night was to replace the "A" power pack which had failed miserably! Half way through the shift with half a shearer electrics spread around my feet on the face I was just wishing that pommie bastard was with me assisting me to rip apart his machine
|
|
|
Post by dazb on May 10, 2005 15:50:14 GMT -5
;D Oh My God John! What are you saying? The AB 16 no trouble, the most reliable machine ever made? I made a good living for the first six years or so of my working life rectifying and repairing these machines underground…………..and now you are telling the world that they were no trouble, you do realise that you may well have opened up the “floodgates of litigation”, I very nearly chocked on my Drambuie Shandy when I read it and I am now suffering from the sudden nightmare scene of a queue of managers and unit engineers demanding all the money back that they paid me in overtime rates. Facing the Inquisition, “Daz Bt why did you spend sixteen hours underground pretending to repair a machine that hadn’t failed?” “We demand that you pay back the cost of the hundreds of pilot valves, unloading valve assemblies, flow control valves, distributors, not to mention the pumps and control latches, the idler bollards that you condemned as being seized, the thousands of gallons of hydraulic oil that you claimed had leaked through failed drum shaft seals.” Well now that I have got over the shock of reading that I will admit that in their day the Ab16 Mk1 single ended hydraulic were reliable workhorses but make no mistake they had their own reliability quirks. The Mk11 and Mk1V single ended haulage were vast improvements on overall efficiency and performance, although mainly only used overseas, the NCB being reluctant to replace the old Mk1 primarily because of the numbers they already owned and their spare parts stock holdings. At a couple of Yorkshire pits “local in house and sneakily surreptitious” modifications were made to improve performance of the Mk1 haulages with spectacular results, I was sent to a machine at Silverwood cutting about 4 foot section because it was claimed that it was hauling slow, I got to the face and timed the machine cutting at 30 foot per minute, the maximum in flit should have been about 21fpm, I couldn’t believe it and told the complaining shearer driver that this was the fastest AB16 in the world but he insisted that the machine had always cut at 36fpm before. We were arguing the toss when a deputy engineer arrived and pulling me to one side explained that it should have been kept a secret but the colliery had boosted the pump drive rpm by about 40% by fitting a specially made set of drive spur gears. The title AB16 was given to a vastly varying range of machines produced by Anderson by the way, from a chain undercutter to a double ended mechanical haulage which went under the official but confusing title of AB16 (or AM 16) 17” double ended mechanical haulage, the 22” servo and 22” Mk1V double ended hydraulic haulages were also an integral part of the AB16 range. The 22” mechanical double ended haulage was another AB16 the confusion was never ending, but apparently the logic was based on the 16 being the nominal height in inches of the original electric motor whilst the 22” and 17” were the respective heights of the haulage units. On to the AM500, I am sure that Mr Downey will be totally over the moon with the suggestion that he designed the AM500 and I believe that you can expect large deposits of AU $ finding their way into your business account shortly. The “small” swashplate pump and motor” were only small until you tried to lift them, gulp!! (There was an AM500 Mechanical haulage as well although very rare, if I remember there were only two ever installed throughout the world and I think I went to the first ever broken one in Colorado).
|
|
|
Post by John on May 11, 2005 7:10:06 GMT -5
I think you were brought up under the old PLA Daz, so you knew the blokes were contract miners earning only when they cut coal, then only after the "norm". If the machine had been run as designed to run, I don't think we would have seen hardly any breakdowns, not that we got many anyway. I recall a collapsed capstan drum bearing, replacing the haulage end. Bollard bearing failures, probably attributed to extra stress due to cutting in flit. I don't recall any pilot valve failures though. Odd gearcase change. But I think the machine was a proven design and far superior to BJD's Magnamatic.Never had the pivilage of working with the old heavy duty trepanner, but remember out first conveyor mounted job with all of it's teething problems. Failed turret bearing mid face!! Gob side steering rams blowing "O" rings every couple of yards until one of our blokes suggested a pit top mod, then no more problems.
|
|
|
Post by dazb on May 11, 2005 7:50:43 GMT -5
I remember the PLA coming into being, the best thing that ever happened to me, from something like 50 shillings a shift to 82/6p (better than Tesco’s “Buy two get the third one free”.) If I remember correctly then Nottinghamshire area were on 1 shilling a shift more than Yorkshire, which made a nonsense of the NCB introduction of the scheme the full title of which was; The NATIONAL Power Loading Agreement (An early application of a Thatcherite Style Stirring perhaps.) Loved the 70hp Trepanner and its heavy duty version even more so, I believe that the DECMT provided the advent of a new generation of craftsmen and created a divide between the “Steam Engineers” and the newer younger generation of fitters and electricians who in turn were replaced by the next generation of “Computer Control Technicians” which was perhaps introduced with the later AM500 style machines and then certainly the Electra series. I will have a guess that if you reckon changing a roof turret assembly in-situ was bad then you were never involved in replacing the floor cutters, now that was a horror story.
|
|
|
Post by John on May 11, 2005 12:35:20 GMT -5
I was referring to the old National Power Loader Agreement Daz, contracts. Yeh, I recall when the new PLA came into effect, if my memory serves me right, the blokes got 25 quid a week whether they cut coal or not. I wasn't aware Notts were paid more, I thought and was told at the time it was standard throughout the coalfields. We never "dropped" a bottom cutter Daz, so not aware what problems were associated with repairing them. Just a turret bottom, thrust? bearing crapped itself midface. A hold had to be fired out above the machine to facilitate removal of the turret shaft. Not the ideal place to open a machine up..
|
|
|
Post by Ragger on May 11, 2005 13:17:28 GMT -5
Hope you're not trying to confuse us with the use of initials. John/Daz. DECMT. D. Don't send for me. E. Electrician busy working outbye. C. Colliery manager on phone. M. Mechanic looking for oil. T. Tak it out of flit.
|
|
|
Post by dazb on May 11, 2005 14:32:14 GMT -5
NICE ONE RAGGER!!
Sorry about that Bill, there are two coal related definitions that I am personally aware of, so I can well understand your own confusion, one is the "DOUBLE ENDED CONVEYOR MOUNTED TREPANNER" the other is the primary cause of being unable to recognise abbreviations, this is commonly known as "DEPUTY'S ENDOTHECIUM CRANIAL MALFUNCTION TRAUMA" which is apparently prevelant as a result of working in damp conditions whereby moisture is absorbed into the moss content of junior colliery management via the orifice often closest to the ground either anal or otic regions. I have a more detailed definition but wouldn't want to bore you further.
|
|
|
Post by Ragger on May 11, 2005 15:08:53 GMT -5
There you go again Dazb, trying to confuse with those big words. Was that a compliment? or were you trying to penetrate the hide of a thick skinned pit animal that shall remain nameless. (couldn't spell rhinoceros skin).
|
|
|
Post by Ragger on May 11, 2005 15:43:44 GMT -5
Just realised what these others meant. AB Authorised Botch-up. NCB Nobody Cares Buster. AM Anaesthetised Miner. SDS Sure Does Stink. RDS Rotund Deputy Stupid. BJD Be Jeebas Daz
|
|
|
Post by dazb on May 11, 2005 15:46:38 GMT -5
Well I just can't win, complaints when words are abreviated (Shortened or chopped) and also when they are written in full (Completed or explicated), perhaps only Gillraylian posibilities remain !! ;D ;D ;D
|
|
|
Post by Ragger on May 12, 2005 9:41:15 GMT -5
Gillraylian.
Now I am confused Daz.
Did you marry a girl call Gill Raylian?
Or
Were you referring to the old measure of a drink of beer?
The [glow=red,2,300]Gill[/glow];I remember being invited into a company of men who drank gills, I wished they had stuck to pints because the beer never stopped flowing from start to lowse. (Bedlington Station Club). There was certainly a [glow=red,2,300]ray[/glow] in my eyes that day and when I told my wife I wasn't drunk, she accused me of [glow=red,2,300]lian[/glow].
|
|
|
Post by dazb on May 12, 2005 10:51:33 GMT -5
My beloved wife's name is Margaret, but I did once have a girlfriend called Gill and one called Penny, oh and another called Fanny, but now I'm teetotal, skint and over the hill.
JAMES GILLRAY “The Prop” His name was Jim“bobs” The most artistic of snobs. He caused many a stink Using a pen and some ink With his own style and flair He could have drawn Tony Blair. If only he’d been born a bit later.
“The Prop” bit is my own invention, I believe that he was a “Pitt supporter”.
Cartoons are a great means of communication……don't yer think?
I forecast a Google!!
|
|
|
Post by Ragger on May 12, 2005 13:34:24 GMT -5
James Gillray.
A sarcastic P/artist, and one armed actor.
Don't you learn a lot on this forum???(lol).
|
|
|
Post by Ragger on May 12, 2005 14:24:14 GMT -5
Got the arm wrong didn't I Daz. James Gillray; a canny wee scot, His dad lost an arm when he was shot. An apprentice letter engraver was Jim, Boring; so it was an actors life for him. Later he started selling his work, Social subjects that made folk talk. His political caricatures were next in line, Many thought his art was simply divine. He became a supporter of William Pitt, Another Tory supporter, Oh sh**. He attacked the Whigs quiet a lot, He often thought; well, why not? The poor couldn’t buy his wares, But then again, who the hell cares.
|
|
|
Post by John on May 12, 2005 15:34:30 GMT -5
I noticed Bill posted some acronyms.....Boy we need a dictionary on this forum... NCB was always known in my area as No C..... Bothered, I'll leave the C to your very lively imaginations.
|
|
|
Post by dazb on May 12, 2005 15:56:16 GMT -5
Good on yer Ragger, I think that his later leaning towards caricatures were influenced more by James' mother rather than his father. She was almost infamous in her day, in so much as she stood out in any crowd, perhaps owing to the fact that she only had one top lip. Mrs Gallery's second cousin's nephew one Hercules Raleigh was in fact the 1,000th customer of Anderson Boyes when he took his bicycle to them for some minor repair work, it was at this point that their (AB's) chief development engineer noticed the two wheel design and was able to initiate the development work involved in creating the very first Double Drum shearer, previous designs had been limited to imitations of the unicycle hence the Single Drum Shearers. This was a great innovation at the time and resulted in phenomenal increases in coal production throughout the British coalfields as well as a double rupture to poor Hercules when he attempted to pedal his upgraded Double Ended Ranging Drum Bike back home. However on the other hand Mrs Gillray always wore a glove.
|
|
|
Post by dazb on May 12, 2005 16:11:39 GMT -5
"I noticed Bill posted some acronyms", never used them acro nym things personally, we always had Dobbies and Dowty Dukes.
|
|
|
Post by dazb on May 21, 2005 16:14:20 GMT -5
I reckon that I have a memory loss here John, but along with the Industrial Deafness and Ephysema Disability Pension I feel that I shouldn't complain, I seem to recollect that "wages" were a free for all before the 1960's NPLA, but I do remember that one face at Rossington was still being paid on the original Mecco-More Agreement well into to the 1960's if not the 1970's at least, and being paid twice the NPLA rate of the rest of the pit, bless em!
|
|
|
Post by John on May 22, 2005 6:53:03 GMT -5
I wouldn't quiet say free for all Daz. A contract was argued with the Manager by the face team and NUM regarding the "norm", how many shears the NCB wanted against what the shear rate the team cound get. Seam quality, hardness, ironstone bands, thickness and many other things had to be taken into account. It usally fell in around two to three shears the blokes had to cut for "nothing" then a contract rate for each shear after the norm. My old pit had three faces, all different rates, but the blokes were all on good money. BUT you had to realize we were still getting paid when the shearer broke down, they weren't, but still had to be found work. One of the drawbacks with contract work.
|
|
|
Post by dazb on May 22, 2005 13:17:39 GMT -5
Ahhaar, now I understand, the rates were negotiated in a much more civilised way than a free for all, I must have been confusing the Tesco/Asda/Morrissons price war with the more gentlemanly NUM/BACM/NCB consultative style exchanges of ideas and diplomatic negotiatinal discussion, but in mitigation I plead an influence induced by my grandfather who was NCB Wages Disputes and Concilliation Officer for Yorkshire in the late 50's and early 1960's who related tales of not only strikes called because of "rates discussions", but acts of sabotage, "working to rule", management being physically abused, union officials and workers being subjected to intimidation, victimisation and all sorts of other bits and bobs that sort of influenced me into thinking that the Price Wars were a bit of a free for all. But then again it is a genetic trait for us to be difficult, hence the famous Yorkshire saying of; "If tha dus owt fer nowt, mek shurr tha paid on't reight rate"
|
|
|
Post by John on May 23, 2005 7:04:36 GMT -5
During my apprenticeship in the 60's Daz, I can't recall one single dispute leading to strike action. I left after completing my time, then in the early 70's two national strikes happened.
There was talk that I recollect when I was about 19 or 20ish of some of your blokes coming down to get support for a national strike that never transpired though. Not that it would have affected me, being an apprentice, I'd have been bundled off to the training centre for the duration.
I'd think Bill was in the pits up in the north east at that time, input Bill!!
|
|
|
Post by Ragger on May 23, 2005 9:54:07 GMT -5
Example of one strike, that I think was typical of many other disputes under the contract system. Not all resulted in strike action.
Newspaper cutting from The Northern Echo. January 1966.
Blyth pit strike about bonus over.
A 24 hour strike of 600 miners at Bates pit, Blyth—one of the largest coat mines in the North—ended late last night. The men decided to return to Work after a mass meeting in a local hall .
The strike began when 49 face workers stopped work as a protest against conditions at the coalface. They said the management were sending too many men to the face to do work which a few could handle. As a result bonus earnings for output were being kept down.
Yesterday morning some 200 men stopped work in sympathy and when other shifts joined in the numbers on strike quickly swelled to 600.
It was feared that without an early settlement the whole of the pits 2,000 manpower force would be affected. Production at Bates, which was recently placed on the list of long lifers by the NCB, was stopped completely during the strike. The days output of 3,000 tons was lost, costing the Coal Board an estimated £20,000.
But last night the men held a second meeting at which they were addressed by the chairman of the Bates Branch of the NUM, Coun. John Donohoe, who talked over the dispute with management officials earlier.
After a two-hour meeting the men agreed to go back to work. It is understood that further discussions will take place with the management today.
|
|