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Post by Wheldale on Aug 13, 2010 8:15:15 GMT -5
does anyone know how a shaft is filled in? are the guides, pipe work etc removed first? Are the shaft insets blocked up prior to filling. What is hard core normally made up of?
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Post by John on Aug 13, 2010 12:36:58 GMT -5
By all accounts no to every question. This topic has been raised on the Welsh Colliery Forums. There's even a couple of photos of a Yorkshire pit bottom after one shaft has been filled.
I always thought the onset was bricked/concreted to form a sold column of rubble/infill, but by all accounts no. Seems a few shafts are starting to "sag" and cause serious problems as the infill gets washed out with mine water.
Seems the NCB/BC hadn't done their homework properly and now people are going to pay with their lives.
I know of two pits where there are buildings built over the shafts, no doubt our members can relate to many more.
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Post by Wheldale on Aug 15, 2010 5:06:10 GMT -5
I know that one of the shafts at Thorne had been filled to within 100m of the top when the hardcore must of flooded the pit bottom and the hardcore settled at 400m from the shaft top.
Would have thought the coal board would of had better proceedures in place. Even the coal authority. Maybe in a few years time it will be a common thing that filled shafts are opening up?
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Post by John on Aug 15, 2010 6:31:46 GMT -5
I know that one of the shafts at Thorne had been filled to within 100m of the top when the hardcore must of flooded the pit bottom and the hardcore settled at 400m from the shaft top. Would have thought the coal board would of had better proceedures in place. Even the coal authority. Maybe in a few years time it will be a common thing that filled shafts are opening up? That's the problem, they are! The infill is slumping sometimes causing a very large diameter hole that's deep to appear. Do a search on the internet and you will find news stories from way back to now of holes appearing in fields, back yards etc. I know Hucknall No2 shafts are built over with a shopping centre, and that pit will be flooded from Linby, Babbington, Bestwood, Hucknall No1, Annesley Bentinck, Newstead etc. There's even a paper about how they kept some of these pits dewatered from closed pits. Clifton has an industrial site on it, over the shafts is a meat preparation factory. It will be flooded.
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Post by philipford734 on Aug 15, 2010 10:23:49 GMT -5
At Kirkless Wigan in the 1950s a goods train went down a shaft that reopend under a martialing yard, a number where killed.
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Post by John on Aug 15, 2010 10:26:30 GMT -5
At Kirkless Wigan in the 1950s a goods train went down a shaft that reopend under a martialing yard, a number where killed. I read about that one a few weeks back while doing a search. There was also a road roller that went down a huge hole that appeared in the road, think it was Wigan, many years back, so it's not a new problem.
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Post by John on Aug 15, 2010 10:31:59 GMT -5
One answer to Wheldales question. Many years back after Wollaton Colliery had closed, we had a few of their men at Clifton. Both Ernie Gerrard and Dave Watson, both electricians were saying, before they started dismantling the winders cages etc they requested to recover the shaft feeders as they were going to be left in situ. They aoffered to do it during the weekend so as not to interfere with U/G salvage operations. Power was off at this stage. They even had a crew lined up to assist with the job for part of the scrap money! They were turned down completely. Both shaft feeders are mixed in with infill.
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Post by Wheldale on Aug 31, 2010 11:41:05 GMT -5
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Post by John on Aug 31, 2010 12:18:02 GMT -5
It's just a matter of time before a few houses or a factory disappear down a shaft with slumping infill. Can you just imagine the Stadium of lights with a record gate seeing two football teams disappear down a 200 yard hole?? I'll bet the colliery under that stadium is full of water by now.
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Post by Wheldale on Aug 31, 2010 14:36:55 GMT -5
That was Wearmouth Colliery, a big pit that went under the north sea. Bet its all flooded now. Imagine someone stepping up to take a match winning penalty and woosh!! the ball is swallowed up with the pitch!
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Post by John on Sept 2, 2010 11:40:15 GMT -5
There's not just the deep pits that present problems, how about all the shallow workings 100 or less feet in depth, all bord and pillar. I wonder how many housing estates now sit on those workings in County Durham and the western edges of Yorkshire, Northumberland and Derbyshire? ? After around 100 years I'll bet a lot of those are in perilous condition, ready to collapse.
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Post by Wheldale on Sept 2, 2010 15:12:28 GMT -5
It makes you wonder. I remember when i used to be a land surveyor, Our company set out the houses on the old Treeton Colliery site. Houses were built very close to the two shafts and drift. I know when a shaft is capped the cap itself is usually twice the diameter of the shaft. I wonder if we will see problems on the numerous housing built on colliery sites? My brother-in-law for one has bought a house on the old Woolley site.
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Post by John on Sept 2, 2010 15:40:46 GMT -5
I've borrowed this from the Welsh Coal Mines Forum.....
"clogs [ PM ] Re: shaft fill August 09, 2010 10:43AM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 75 About 35 years ago Cumbria County Council took over the old Oatlands Colliery (1888-1934) site at Pica, near Workington, for reclamation. They undertook the shaft filling themselves using the spoil material on site.
When we arrived on site a couple of years later to investigate a reported "subsidence" we were met with the sight of a 40 feet deep by 30 yards diameter crater with the remains of one shaft wall standing in it like a 20 foot chimney. Unfortunately it seems that they had neglected to do their homework and had used small fill throughout.
It was on record that during sinking a feeder of water was met in one of the shafts which, under artesian pressure, was subsequently used to provide water to the village before mains water arrived. It appears that the fill had gradually been washed from this shaft (500+ feet deep) into the insets and that the final collapse of the fill above the feeder had sucked the shaft walls and surrounding ground from under the caps. Thankfully the pit was at some distance from the nearest house. Reply Quote Report
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Post by John on Sept 2, 2010 15:42:54 GMT -5
Just imagine the consequences of the same happening under a modern housing estate/industrial complex!!
I know for a fact Clifton Colliery south of Nottingham went through water bearing strata, as did Cotgrave. Cotgrave had problems with shaft linings being damaged by corrosive water going through anhydrite. The water is acidic. The concrete lining gave way one weekend, luckily nobody was underground. The shaft had to be refrozen and relined. Meanwhile production ceased and a major pumping operation was started. That was the late 50's early 60's. Someone reading this might join in and add to it. Not sure if Cotgrave has anything built there yet, but there is an industrial complex over Clifton's site.
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Post by Wheldale on Sept 4, 2010 13:04:20 GMT -5
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Post by John on Sept 4, 2010 14:04:15 GMT -5
Just read that, interesting too, I remember the new Act coming into force and nobody had a copy of the act, either in part or entirety!!! And we were expected to know whether we were breaking the law or not!! My elec engineer at Angus Place managed to secure parts of the new Act, research it and make up electrical drafts and mining drafts that the Inspector approved, even he didn't know the new Act!!! It was rushed through both houses of the NSW Parliament because of the Appin Colliery explosion around 1979. I still have my two copies of the amended CMRA folders we were issued with during the training talks. The Act was still being amended when I left Oz, and that was 1989, you will notice the stamp on that paper "DRAFT", although it held legal force of law, it hadn't been passed by Parliament. The prior Act was originally passed in 1913 I think, and amended to suit technology, but there were a hell of a lot of local rules applied by the district chief Inspectors.
Prior to the 1984 Act, experts in coal mining were sent on fact finding tours to the UK, USA, Germany etc to study their Coal Mining Laws. A lot of the 1984 Act came out of the M&Q Act amended at that time.
To be honest, the first couple of years after the 84 Act were bloody murder, we kept finding stuff that needed correcting big time. One major problem was the new qualifications rules!!! Essentially we were operating illegally until it was sorted out! Then it was like all the electrical staff under Engineer status and fitting staff were like the "green ticket" holders we used to have in the NCB pits of the 50's, 60's and 70's until they retired. All apprentices coming out their time after the "break in" period of the Act had to have electrical or mechanical mining qualifications, ie technical school passes for the four years.
Like I say chaotic!!! Good to see they do have decent shaft sealing rules. Somewhere in the Sydney area are a lot of shafts from abandoned collieries, probably in the Western Suburbs. So they have a problem building up themselves!!!! Those mines were abandoned over 100 years ago....
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ken
Trainee
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Post by ken on Sept 14, 2010 5:17:21 GMT -5
Associated with the topic of shaft subsidence, does anyone know anything about salt wells. At Haverton Hill near Billingham in Co Durham a salt bed was discovered in 1860. I believe hot water was pumped down to extract the salt. It may still be working and worked for at least 100 years. There must be a huge hole underground. How long before it subsides?
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Post by John on Sept 14, 2010 8:19:06 GMT -5
Associated with the topic of shaft subsidence, does anyone know anything about salt wells. At Haverton Hill near Billingham in Co Durham a salt bed was discovered in 1860. I believe hot water was pumped down to extract the salt. It may still be working and worked for at least 100 years. There must be a huge hole underground. How long before it subsides? When I first started at Cleveland Potash in 1975, there were several local newspaper stories over the year of brine wells being driven in the Whitby area to extract the potash seam down there. Nothing came of it. Been a while now, so not sure what infos available, but I'm sure I came across some web pages on the Cheshire salt brine wells and problems of subsidence over the years. I never heard of any wells used to extract salt in the Billingham area, I knew ICI had mined anhydrite in that area and the mines are going to be used to store radiocative waste soon. I'd take a guess the salt seam is the same one we had at Boulby mine, rising to shallower depths near Billingham??? It was fifty feet thick at Boulby and just below the potash seam. Below that is a thick anhydrite seam. Maybe the same one ICI mined north of the Tees??? I recall the potash. salt and the other seams were on the rise going north and on the dip going south , guestimation from memory 1:8 or there abouts.
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Post by John on Sept 14, 2010 13:22:13 GMT -5
Ken, I found this for you doing a search of salt solution mining.
Salt was extracted by the evaporation of sea-water (on sunny days!) on the tidal flats of the Tees and nearby from very early times (as indeed suggested by place-names such as Saltburn.) Rock-salt was first detected in a deep borehole at Middlesbrough in 1862, with production starting at Port Clarence (north of the Tees) in 1874, and at Middlesbrough, North Ormesby and Eston at various dates from 1886 – 89. Production at these three places peaked at about 63,130 tonnes in 1894, but had declined to about 21,000 tonnes by 1918, and has subsequently ceased. Uncontrolled solution mining of common salt, predictably, gave rise to some ground stability problems. It was followed by more controlled brine-pumping designed to leave carefully planned and spaced solution cavities, some of which have been used subsequently for the storage of natural gas. By 1974 solution mining was restricted to the coastal flats some four kilometres north of Middlesbrough. It was the common salt, however extracted, that led to the concentration of heavy chemical industries in the Middlesbrough – Billingham area, where amongst other materials chlorine, caustic soda (sodium hydroxide) and sodium metal were manufactured, not to mention numerous derivatives.
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Post by tonyrich on Oct 10, 2010 15:49:29 GMT -5
The workings at the Billingham anhydrite mine are still standing strong. A team went back in a few years back to carry out survey of the mine conditions and they accessed it through the original filled mine shaft. You can go onto the Middlesbrough Evening Gazette website and search for billingham anhydrite mine and it shows you all the pictures taken from the survey with everything still in tact! You can compare these pictures from the ones on Durham Mining Museum site which were taken in the early 50's and it looks as if nothing has changed, as if they just turned of the electricity and left one day. Makes for good viewing.
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Post by John on Oct 11, 2010 7:18:39 GMT -5
The workings at the Billingham anhydrite mine are still standing strong. A team went back in a few years back to carry out survey of the mine conditions and they accessed it through the original filled mine shaft. You can go onto the Middlesbrough Evening Gazette website and search for billingham anhydrite mine and it shows you all the pictures taken from the survey with everything still in tact! You can compare these pictures from the ones on Durham Mining Museum site which were taken in the early 50's and it looks as if nothing has changed, as if they just turned of the electricity and left one day. Makes for good viewing. Isn't there plans to uses those old workings to store nuclear waste Tony??? My bet is that's what Boulby mine will be used for once it's finished production, nice and deep, well away from the water table/s, very deep.
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Post by tonyrich on Oct 17, 2010 15:11:58 GMT -5
There was talk in the late 80's to use these workings for nuclear waste and the same subject popped up a few years back but due to the high protests and how shallow depth some of the old workings are to Billingham it's all been rejected. As for Boulby it would be ideal for any sort of waste! the North workings are stretching over 10 miles out under the North sea now. I know a couple of years ago just before I left we got a new mine manager who was ex coal board who set about locating and salvaging and digging out all the old machines and equipment buried down there for hoisting out the pit to sell for scrap. My dad said Nealy every piece of old equipment has been located and dug out, equipment which was buried in the late 70's and early 80's. A lot of work and went into it such as entering old workings and back ripping old access roads.
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Post by John on Oct 17, 2010 15:46:04 GMT -5
There was talk in the late 80's to use these workings for nuclear waste and the same subject popped up a few years back but due to the high protests and how shallow depth some of the old workings are to Billingham it's all been rejected. As for Boulby it would be ideal for any sort of waste! the North workings are stretching over 10 miles out under the North sea now. I know a couple of years ago just before I left we got a new mine manager who was ex coal board who set about locating and salvaging and digging out all the old machines and equipment buried down there for hoisting out the pit to sell for scrap. My dad said Nealy every piece of old equipment has been located and dug out, equipment which was buried in the late 70's and early 80's. A lot of work and went into it such as entering old workings and back ripping old access roads. Up until I left in 79, there was only one machine that was parked up and left. It was a Marrietta Continuous miner, down the south side. It's only failure was that it cut too fast for the belts to keep up with it, I think also it may have been too cumbersome taking up almost the complete heading, whereas the Heliminers cut in two passes. The Marrietta was bought used from a Canadian mine, and we adapted the electrics for British Flameproof electrics. The Manager when I left in August 79 was ex NCB way back. He'd been working with the South African side of the company down in SA. Like all the Managers during my time there, all had Bsc degrees. The first Henry Stucke was also a senior Director of the parent company from South Africa, he was also a "lay preacher" and preached at a local church on Sundays. The last one as I said was ex NCB, in fact I think he was from South Yorks if my memory is right, he could swear with the rest of us too!!
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Post by holty on Jan 6, 2011 15:43:59 GMT -5
I had a short spell at Bentley Colliery in Doncaster when they were preparing for shaft filling for Amco and everything seemed to be done by the book ie putting back in material as near as what came out ie hard core and gravel etc. I was at Thorne when UK Coal engineers came from Selby and were looking for the cheepest way with broken glass being one material. In the end they just kept sending lorry loads od slag from Kellinglys spoil tips. This took months and months to everyones supprise but nobody gave a monkeys. There has been nothing built at Thorne Colliery since and was an act of industrial vandalism.
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Post by blueflame on Jan 7, 2011 20:01:45 GMT -5
Our local pit was filled with what looked like railway ballast, maybe a bit bigger! they couldnt wait to start to fill it and had two 20 ton Volvo dump trucks filling one shaft then the other, the North was upcast with south down cast, this had a ventilation tunnel which faced south over looking the old railway line and was later covered with wire mesh. If you climbed up and looked through this you could see a huge gape between the concrete cap and the settling ballast, this was only weeks after it was capped so years later there must be a very long drop down the shaft as all this would have settled, very good planning that And now there is talk of building on the land which is also contaminated by British Benzol who had a plant there, yes we could write a book about all the goings on, like when van loads of police records were brought from Bridgend and box loads of records thrown down the south shaft, some blowing out of the ventilation hole for anyone to pick up, all very secure Despite over 25 years of coal still down there it was closed along with the rest, oil is now king and we are paying the price per litre while getting gas from thousands of miles away, all very eco friendly that.
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Post by andyexplorer on Jan 12, 2011 9:48:35 GMT -5
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Post by andyexplorer on Jan 13, 2011 21:33:10 GMT -5
At Kirkless Wigan in the 1950s a goods train went down a shaft that reopend under a martialing yard, a number where killed. i think this could be the accident which you are reffering to ! www.wiganworld.co.uk/stuff/past1.php?opt=past
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inbye
Shotfirer.
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Post by inbye on Jan 23, 2011 9:39:07 GMT -5
I have the closure of Emley Moor documented on film. At the same time the filling of the old Speedwell pit shaft was carried out. The video shows hardcore (think it was crushed stone) being tipped down the open shaft. This went on to just above water level. Men were then lowered by an emergency winder & used windy picks to remove a section of the shaft lining. On completion, wagon loads of puddling clay were tipped down to fill the removed section with an impervious plug. A small "panzer" was then set up so that wagons could tip onto it & the shaft filled to collar level with what looked like crushed stone but could have been pit spoil.
A similar operation was carried out at Emley Moor & Nineclogs shafts. The coal drift, which supplied Skelmanthorpe screens, was backfilled for a significant length by a slusher, using pit spoil from the adjacent stack.
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Post by precky on Mar 6, 2011 15:31:01 GMT -5
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Post by John on Mar 7, 2011 8:26:03 GMT -5
There's been many of those sort of accidents over the years, Wigan has hundreds of old shafts, many dating before the law required mine workings to be surveyed.
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