Refuge shelters

[dazbt]

The question of underground refuge shelters seems to be topical once again, I personally can’t see what possible argument there could be against them, but obviously there are some that see them as being of negative advantage. The implemtation of refuge stations in coal mines was probably an idea initiated by such a scheme employed at Peckfield Colliery in the early 1960s. Once the workings of this mine reached a distance of almost six miles from the pit bottom shafts it was realised that some provision had to be made to ensure a ‘safe haven’ some where near mid traveling point.
It should be noted that Peckfield was working at the very northern extremity of the Yorkshire coal field and as such had no links to neighboring collieries that might have offered alternative means of escape. At an approximate mid point, a metre wide (I think) surface to seam bore hole was drilled and a supposed explosion proof steel chamber constructed underground, this chamber was equipped with survival supplies and obviously the one metre dia shaft as a possible means of immediate ventilation and escape. As far as I know it was never needed, but the fact that it was there provided me and no doubt many others with a great deal of confidence as I passed it.

[Mick]

dazbt,so you worked there when it shut some of the lads came to Wheldale.
A good set of blokes,but we got this overman from there called Gordon Evans a right pain.
He told us he also worked in South Africa but came back home as he couldnt stand the Blacks
none of us could stand him,he was a right BIG HEAD.
He had a mate that also came with him,he looked like Hitler with a oil lamp.

[dazbt]

Aug 6, 2008 17:36:54 GMT -5 Mick said:

dazbt,so you worked there when it shut some of the lads came to Wheldale.
A good set of blokes,but we got this overman from there called Gordon Evans a right pain.
He told us he also worked in South Africa but came back home as he couldnt stand the Blacks
none of us could stand him,he was a right BIG HEAD.
He had a mate that also came with him,he looked like Hitler with a oil lamp.

I've 'worked' all over the place Mick, usually only a few days or weeks at a time but sometimes over months. I worked on coal face cutting equipment, installation, cutting operation, breakdown repair, maintainance and monitoring of shearers, trepanners etc. For the last few years that I worked I dealt specifically with field development of new designs of shearers, I wasn't very good at it but I certainly got to see quite a few mucky corners of the world.
I did get to Wheldale quite a few times in the mid 1960s mainly on breakdowns of the infamous 120hp Heavy Duty Floor Mounted Trepanner ......... which at that time was the 'bee's knees' of coal cutting machines, until it broke down, then it was just a big heavy ugly animal.
Although I can remember exactly the details of last job I did at Peckfield I can't recall one name of anyone I worked with, partly due to the fact that I probably worked with a thousand different miners over the years and even more likely because of a memory fading even faster than the rest of me.

[John]

Pretty odd when you think back Daz, that many pits were so close and yet no means of escape other than the two main shafts.
Bestwood was linked to Hucknall No1 the training pit which in turn was linked to Hucknall No2 and Linby. Babbington, the first deep colliery in the Nottinghamshire concealed coalfield, was linked to Hucknall No2 eventually.
Yet Calverton was on it's own, Cotgrave was too.
The old Wollaton was linked to the old Radford, but they were joined under private ownership, being owned by Lord Willoughby.

Clifton was never linked, but 41's MG was supposed to have been driven through to Cotgrave, but never materialised. I note on the deep hard seam abandonment plans, Cotgrave had an advanced face stop within 300 metres of Cliftons 41's face though.

I'd imagine most yorkshire pits were within reasonable distance of each other and could have been linked.

[inbye]

Park Mill was one of the safer pits, regarding access. Two shafts, coal drift, material/loco drift, ventilation drift & it was linked to Emley Moor.
I think in the years after I'd left, it was also joined to the Wooley complex.......can anyone confirm?

Shuttle Eye at Grange Moor, was linked to a drift mine in Mirfield, called Gregory Springs. I had relatives who worked there in the early seventies & during one of the November work to rules, there was a power cut that lasted several hours. They were steam winders at Shuttle, but the shift couldn't get out as the brakes were electrically operated. They had to walk all the way to Gregory, where they were then ferried back by NCB minibuses. The road was only an airway & about as bad as they got.......not a good experience
Check a map, it would be a fair trek on the surface...

[dazbt]

Inbye ses;
"Park Mill was one of the safer pits, regarding access."

too true it was, if more than six foot of roof muck dropped you were in sunlight anyway. main gate rippers used to put the ring top back boards in from the farmer's field ;D ;D

[John]

Aug 7, 2008 15:23:02 GMT -5 dazbt said:

Inbye ses;
"Park Mill was one of the safer pits, regarding access."

too true it was, if more than six foot of roof muck dropped you were in sunlight anyway. main gate rippers used to put the ring top back boards in from the farmer's field ;D ;D

Packamacs were standard issue then?? Just in case it rained. ;D ;D

[dazbt]

Aug 7, 2008 15:28:22 GMT -5 John said:

Aug 7, 2008 15:23:02 GMT -5 dazbt said:

Inbye ses;
"Park Mill was one of the safer pits, regarding access."

too true it was, if more than six foot of roof muck dropped you were in sunlight anyway. main gate rippers used to put the ring top back boards in from the farmer's field ;D ;D

Packamacs were standard issue then?? Just in case it rained. ;D ;D

Well that bit about the rain is probably truer than the sunshine, when I first went to the Spring Wood side they were working the top and bottom Fenton seams seperately, the top Fenton with an AB16 and I think the thicker bottom seam with a BJD Magnamatic. I can't recall the extraction of the Top Fenton but I can remember that even though it was prop and bar it was a real struggle to get through the face, but if that wasn't bad enough, the ventilation was enough to blow you away, it was freezing on there. I was ten and a half stone wet through at the time, built like a racing snake, but I had to decide each time I went whether to wear a donkey jacket or overalls to try and keep warm, you couldn't wear both and manage to crawl through the face.
Great pit though and a brilliant team of lads ...... even though they did speak in a foreign language.
I have other Park Mill stories to tell,
The six inch nail in the tree and the one armed banksman,
The canteen vista
The Bretton College naked ladies
and of course the wonderful story of The night that Emley Moor mast collapsed.

[dazbt]

The most recent innovation relating to underground refuge shelters seem to be around inflatable self supporting units than come literally in a metal cannister, released at the flick of a switch (or lever) these 'tents' are claimed to provide a safe enviroment in the aftermath of potential disasters such as fires, explosions or collapse of ground preventing normal egress ........... I'm not convinced personally, obviously there could be certain circumstances that such devices could save lives, but I think that I would have much sooner seen the implementation of more rigid structures, perhaps placed in fixed strategic places within a mine with the possibility of these flimsier devices deployed as intermediate possibilities if being able to reach a more substantial refuge became absolutely impossible. It may well be though, that this then becomes a reasonable argument against them, the fact that at the time of a serious occurence such as a fire, explosion, outburst of gas etc. that a reliance on them as being the easiest reached means of preservation as opposed to miners continuing to reach much safer refuge or complete escape would provide some sort of negative comfort. I might well be looking at this from a completely wrong point of view, but from personal experience still carried from many years ago, if I was managing to stay in front of a following collapsing roof, inrush of millions of gallons of water, a sudden and massive outburst of methane or had flames licking my a*se then the last place in the world that I would want be was in an oxygen filled nylon tent waiting for any of those to catch me up.
Here's a link to a PDF file that describes the 'merits' of inflatable refuges, is has to be downloaded to 'save' then opened to view, certainly very interesting reading, but I'm not sure that I would buy one;

eidr.wvu.edu/files/5305/Fasouletos_Michael_thesis.pdf

[shropshirebloke]

Ummmmm, I remember around 1978/9 the NCB announced a trial of really simple BA sets in a few pits. There would be six in the main and tail gate of each face.

I remember thinking I wouldn't have wanted to have been caught in the rush!!!

And for similar reasons, although, nearly thirty years on, I 'd love to go back down a UK pit, you couldn't pay me enough to go through the Channel Tunnel - trampled to death by stampeding mums with pushchairs who think they've smelt smoke???!!!

[inbye]

Aug 7, 2008 16:55:32 GMT -5 dazbt said:

Aug 7, 2008 15:28:22 GMT -5 John said:

Packamacs were standard issue then?? Just in case it rained. ;D ;D

Well that bit about the rain is probably truer than the sunshine, when I first went to the Spring Wood side they were working the top and bottom Fenton seams seperately, the top Fenton with an AB16 and I think the thicker bottom seam with a BJD Magnamatic. I can't recall the extraction of the Top Fenton but I can remember that even though it was prop and bar it was a real struggle to get through the face, but if that wasn't bad enough, the ventilation was enough to blow you away, it was freezing on there. I was ten and a half stone wet through at the time, built like a racing snake, but I had to decide each time I went whether to wear a donkey jacket or overalls to try and keep warm, you couldn't wear both and manage to crawl through the face.
Great pit though and a brilliant team of lads ...... even though they did speak in a foreign language.
I have other Park Mill stories to tell,
The six inch nail in the tree and the one armed banksman,
The canteen vista
The Bretton College naked ladies
and of course the wonderful story of The night that Emley Moor mast collapsed.

Were you at PM when the mast came down, Daz? So was I, watching the tele the night before, screen went to "snow", next morning on the way to work, it was laid in the fields

[rorybagleys]

We had above-ground shelters at our mining site in Alaska. They were fabric covered bunk houses that were part of a larger camp at the mine. The insulation and heaters helped them stay surprisingly warm in the Alaskan tundra.


EDITED due to commercial advertising link. READ the site rules!!

[fortythreesflyer]

www.secretleeds.com/viewtopic.php?t=3049 check this site article relating to a nuclear shelter at Robin Hood colliery.

[Wheldale]

Really interesting about the shelter at Robin Hood pit. I wonder if any other pits had such a shelter installed?

When I worked in South Africa the gold mines had refuge shelters. I'm not sure if it was law but they built shelters that had a supply of air and water. Accommodated about 20 men. The mines I worked on wasn't gassy so we didn't have to carry BA sets. In case of fire you would go to your nearest shelter, switch on a beacon/horn thing on the door and wait for rescue. The beacon/horn was to alert rescuers to your location.

[dazbt]

Jan 8, 2016 4:41:39 GMT -5 Wheldale said:

Really interesting about the shelter at Robin Hood pit. I wonder if any other pits had such a shelter installed?

When I worked in South Africa the gold mines had refuge shelters. I'm not sure if it was law but they built shelters that had a supply of air and water. Accommodated about 20 men. The mines I worked on wasn't gassy so we didn't have to carry BA sets. In case of fire you would go to your nearest shelter, switch on a beacon/horn thing on the door and wait for rescue. The beacon/horn was to alert rescuers to your location.

Firstly, as posted on this thread previously, other pits in Yorkshire did have purpose built refuge shelters. Peckfield certainly had a "survival shelter", supposedly air and water tight, it was established at the halfway mark when in the early 1970s they were working faces approximately 6 miles from the pit bottom. There was at least one to-surface borehole and the room had replenishable water, first aid and some emergency food supplies (which I was reliably informed included Barley Sugar flavoured "Spangles"). This shelter was intended purely for use in the event of underground problems and protection of the miners, certainly not for use as any form of nuclear fallout shelter.
I can't for the life of me see the logic in building a nuclear shelter hundreds of yards underground where the only access would be a vertical shaft with an openly exposed surface winding system.
In a previous employment I was involved in verifying the operational integrity of so called Early Warning Systems within my local area and as such was privy to the location of at least one supposedly secret nuclear shelter (although everyone living within a 10 mile radius seemed to know everything about it, apart from knowing exactly who would have access to it in the event of it being required). This was a walk-in shelter with no second egress which always seemed strange to me, but as I wouldn't have been invited to use it should the need have arisen it didn't bother me very much.

[John]

He was advertising outdoor weather shelters, not underground refuges to escape to in emergencies.

[fortythreesflyer]

At Wheldale colliery when I started in 1969,as far as my memory can recall we had 3 means of egress, 1 on the east side to Glasshoughton, 1 on the north side to Fryston and 1 on the south side to Allerton bywater. As the crow flys from wheldale pit bottoms Fryston would be approx 1.5mile, Glasshoughton 2miles and Allerton bywater 3.5miles so we were quite lucky.

[kundyhole]

I read the title wrong !!
I thought this was a post on putting people from syria and afgahnistan underground !!

So now I have read it and comprehended what it's all about I will comment if I dare .

As some of you know I work in a potash mine .
Each and every district or Revier has a sicherheitskammer or a refuge shelter .
strange I know but in reality could be a real life saver , yes we never had them down the pit in the UK well at least I never saw or heard of one in the North Staffs .

Today I travel at least 25 km from pit bottom to my place of work yes 25 km whats that in old money 15 miles or so ? If ever we had a serious incident our ssr 90 self rescuer isn't going to last out until we get back to pit bottom so we have our Refuge shelters . Here you can breath , eat drink and have contact to the surface for a few days . Or enough time for the rescue guys to get us out (hopefully
Fires are always a risk in any mine but our big worry is a massive inrush of CO² we have very little Methane CH4 to speak of so risk of explosion is minimal .

Funny to read this tonight as I have just had my second means of egress instruction (noon shift)
and have been made aware of at least 9 sicherheitskammer on the way to number 1 pit .

Glückauf

Max

[merlin]

I was told by miners who worked at now closed ifton colliery which was in England had only one shaft the other shaft was at black park closed since 1947 the walk was about 3 miles all uphill