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Post by John on Dec 9, 2015 11:36:23 GMT -5
As a landowner i`m quite aware of the payments for having a wind turbine on ones land,sadly i don`t have one, I`m also aware the figure`s from these solar panel companies don`t add up,hence i don`t have them, I`m also aware of the wealthy in this land have their fingers in many pies, I`m also aware that coal is being phased out so fracking can replace it as a source of energy,again with the wealthy`s finger in the pie. Abengoa is bigger than the total we have in the UK,so could very well be a case of getting to big and stretching themselves to thinly on the ground and nothing to do with subsides. Time will tell. I think theres more to the solar pannels than meets the eye Jim. been subcontracting for a company and cleaning them for a well known supermarket chain. One store had 500 on roof and the other a thousand. If they were a waste of time these companies wouldnt have them. Do they power the stoers or sell back to grid? cant tell you that but i do know we will be up there again in a few months cleaning them again so it must be worth their while. The amount of solar farms apearing as well is phenominal. However 6 applications have been turned down in Penrith, but one is being built over Haxham Sounds like an "ongrid" system Clive, I believe the UK had rules that the electric utility had to buy back so many KWhrs of electricity from these systems per year. I gather the price per unit has now dropped..Remember these are covered by government subsidies too!!
Over here, state side, each state has it's own pricing rules, some pay the market wholesale value per unit generated, others just adjust your yearly annual generating per unit and credit your monthly bills accordingly. Missouri, where I live credits your bill. So if I installed an ongrid system, lets say my annual bill totals $2000, then that's the maximum I'd be credited with, anything over they get free.
To my knowledge, there are two types of panels, standard for off and on grid, and one that has a small inverter/controller on each panel, those are used by plugging into an outlet/powerpoint. They don't actually deliver into the utilities grid system, but just take up some of your load during daylight sunny hours. Plain panels come in two types, low voltage and high voltage, low voltage are typically designed to be paralled up for battery charging, off grid. High voltage are designed for series connection for one grid systems. So for ongrid systems you wire your panels until you have enough for say 300-350 volts for a singles phase 240 volt system, that feeds an inverter/controller, it monitors the utilities supply for power, safety feature, and frequency. When it aligns itself to the utilities voltage and frequency, in phase, it switches the inverter on and backfeeds into the grid. IF power fails, the controller, will isolate itself from the grid.
Off grid systems, use a number of panels for battery charging, feeding a charge controller, that monitors the batteries state of charge and temperature and adjust charge rates accordingly. Battery output feeds one to several inverters, depending on the house needs, to supply AC at the standard frequency, crystal controlled. I have two 4Kw peak units, Master and Slave, the slave only comes on if peak power is over the Masters 4Kw output. As everything up to the inverters is DC, the breakers are huge compared to AC breakers, plus input cabling is rather on the large size too. I'm hoping to run my off grid system within the near future. I have all the hardware in the battery house assembled, batteries are being trickle charged every couple of weeks. I need to order a few feet of 0000 AWG stranded copper cable, pretty thick!! and a few feet of 00 AWG for the batteries, each 24 volt bank wired to a common busbar mounted on the wall to keep cable costs down a tad. My panels consist of 20 36 volt 8 amp units, all will be paralled at the battery house input bus. I say 8 amp, but they are rated around 8.5 amps in bright sunlight. I was going to mount them on the roof, but decided to mount them in units of three on 5" x 5" poles concreted in the ground at 10ft spacing, with a 2" x 8" treated wood frame, using 1"galv steel pipe as an "axle" to be able to tilt the frames for tracking the sun through the seasons cycles.
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Post by eleceng on Dec 9, 2015 17:29:25 GMT -5
John, more astounding facts. Google CHARLES LYNTON. You will be amazed. We are insignificant regarding the establishment, Bilderberg, illuminati or New World Order. And those are tied in with Zionism, don't get mixed up with Jews and Zionism though!! There is an active website, run by prominent Rabbi's, Jews Against Zionism"
Some years back a friend, who is now deceased, told me about the financing of Hitler's rise to power, the Russian Revolution in 1917 and WW2 were all financed by one Zionist family, who ran a world wide banking group..I took it with a pinch of salt, then found several sources of information that proved what he'd told me.
Some would ask, what's this got to do with the end of the UK coal industry, EVERYTHING!! It's all to do with control... by those in power..
Communism was an experiment, it failed miserably. It didn't achieve what our "masters" wanted, but it did teach them how to subjugate the masses though, but didn't raise the profits they were seeking. Probably why the Nationalized industries were privatized.
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Post by eleceng on Dec 9, 2015 17:33:13 GMT -5
It would seem John, that the only person to stand up to the Zionist bankers is the Russian president.
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Post by smshogun on Dec 9, 2015 21:14:14 GMT -5
Clive, our roofing division fits them and the main reason they have them is to stay ahead of environmental emissions targets set by the EU or Government and as a company can offset their cost as a business expense it ends up costing them nothing, so as they effectively cost nothing anything they produce is a profit. They are fully aware that if they had to buy them and not be able to offset the cost against tax that they would be onto a loser meaning they are attractive in offsetting some profit against tax.
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Post by smshogun on Dec 9, 2015 21:27:32 GMT -5
Mick, been a keen advocate of thorium for years, you can put a percentage of weapons grade waste in with it and it doesn't even reach the natural levels of radioactivity so even in the worst of disasters its perfectly safe and we could get rid of a lot of currently stored nuclear waste to help clean up the planet.
Thorium is great as a baseload source of energy and its much cheaper, here is the problem, as its much cheaper and safer to use the sites are much cheaper to build, cheaper to build equals less profits, less profits mean Government cannot transfer as much taxpayer sourced income to them as profits.
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Post by eleceng on Dec 11, 2015 6:02:01 GMT -5
Smshogun, you're exactly right. Any technology that can save money is not funded as it does not fit in with people that control the money & politics. Be it power, transport or anything else. All the answers are there, and it's gone on since the Industrial Revolution.
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Post by smshogun on Dec 11, 2015 23:01:41 GMT -5
No control over me Mick, not paid a utility bill in some time and by a little study you can avoid water, gas, and electric bills by using there laws against them.
Have geothermal heating; heating a very thermally inefficient house working totally on thermo syphon and no other energy source, it chugs away 24/7/365 and costs nothing; it heats the house then runs to 2 X 50' poly tunnels, then to four thermally efficient barns constructed solely from formwork steel for the framing and unused SIPS panels for the cladding, house and barns are always warm. Cut the gas or electricity it simply continues chugging away.
Stream now dammed and a vortex accelerated snail shell generator chugs away 24/7 also providing us with electricity at mains voltage, surplus is fed into the grid and even when we factor in the 3 phase in the barns I get a reasonable rebate instead of a bill, it has the capability to operate in load sensing mode and is plumbed to do so. This is in addition to the remaining solar panels kindly donated by our suppliers (officially for durability testing) which are still in place and the compact wind turbines now in place supplying several huge battery packs ranging in size up to 25Kw at 12 volts.
Just gone on line is our gas, this is free and only requires rainwater and a wind turbine, it produces HHO solely from wind and rain, the turbine switches mode to produce HHO solely or charges the huge battery pack, @ 12 volts, 30 amps it produces about 60 L/min which is then compressed using a special industrial pump (FLP of course) designed specially for the task which fills a storage tank; currently we have four houses powered by it and hope to expand it in the new year.
Utilities hold me to ransom? they can f**k off. my house will be warm, be well lit, and I will have gas to cook.
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Post by dazbt on Dec 12, 2015 4:18:27 GMT -5
I'm hoping this will solve my energy problems, it's a bit of an idea I persuaded a few of our EU cousins to knock together from a few old oil barrels and a collection of spare DECMT parts that I've had laid about in my workshops, a few of you might recognise the repeated use of roof turret and pump-box castings. Started its X Dept, trial run two days ago, just waiting for the bang !
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Post by colly0410 on Dec 12, 2015 12:16:04 GMT -5
I wonder when or if these fusion reactors will ever produce more power than they take? Been more false starts than an Olympic 3 legged race..
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Post by smshogun on Dec 13, 2015 11:37:09 GMT -5
Colly, much in the engineering press about thorium and the fact a simple change means its nearly as efficient as the other elements and produces about 98% of the power output, and produces it using a lot less and cheaper reactors and a raw material which is also much cheaper.
In point of fact there are all sorts of thorium reactors running, someone has even fitted one to a car and boat and they are apparently running around fine, not heard about them for a while so may have to look them up, remember the corporations want everything as expensive as possible as more expensive means more profits; 25% profit on £50M is more than 50% profit on £5M. It has been claimed you can build a thorium powered plant providing equal power output for 10% of the price of a traditional reactor.
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Post by smshogun on Dec 13, 2015 11:38:06 GMT -5
Daz, they forgot the magnets, send it back and get a refund.
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Post by smshogun on Dec 13, 2015 11:46:30 GMT -5
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Post by rorybagleys on Dec 30, 2015 13:15:57 GMT -5
Solar is a good option for generating small amounts of power. I think they'll need some technological advances to come along before solar can be considered for powering industry.
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Post by John on Dec 30, 2015 13:42:49 GMT -5
Solar is a good option for generating small amounts of power. I think they'll need some technological advances to come along before solar can be considered for powering industry. But it is used in industry right now, one of the major solar module manufacturers uses solar power to "grow" and process the silicon crystal material via solar panels. Down in Southern California, there are large outlets, like Home Depot whose roofs are covered in solar modules powering the stores lights, A/C system and provide general electricity needs during the daytime. Lots of major manufacturing plants have covered their roof space to provide electricity during daylight hours. That's it's limitation though, sunny days. I know of one wholesaler/retailer of wind turbines and solar modules who power their warehouse and shop up from a couple of large "home type" wind turbines and solar modules a few miles north of me, I'm in Missouri. I understand they use batteries to store energy.
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Post by dazbt on Dec 30, 2015 16:16:42 GMT -5
Solar is a good option for generating small amounts of power. I think they'll need some technological advances to come along before solar can be considered for powering industry. But it is used in industry right now, one of the major solar module manufacturers uses solar power to "grow" and process the silicon crystal material via solar panels. Down in Southern California, there are large outlets, like Home Depot whose roofs are covered in solar modules powering the stores lights, A/C system and provide general electricity needs during the daytime. Lots of major manufacturing plants have covered their roof space to provide electricity during daylight hours. That's it's limitation though, sunny days. I know of one wholesaler/retailer of wind turbines and solar modules who power their warehouse and shop up from a couple of large "home type" wind turbines and solar modules a few miles north of me, I'm in Missouri. I understand they use batteries to store energy. quote from net;
"After an almost two decade long hiatus, deployment of CSP resumed in 2007, with significant growth only in the most recent years. However, the design for several new projects is being changed to cheaper photovoltaics.[6] Most operational CSP stations are located in Spain and the United States, while large solar farms using photovoltaics are being constructed in an expanding list of geographic regions. As of January 2015, the largest solar power plants in the world are: for PV, the 550 MW Desert Sunlight Solar Farm and 550 MW Topaz Solar Farm, both located in southern California for CSP, the 377 MW Ivanpah Solar Power Facility, located in California's Mojave Desert
Other large CSP facilities include the 354 megawatt (MW) Solar Energy Generating Systems power installation in the USA, Solnova Solar Power Station (Spain, 150 MW), Andasol Solar Power Station (Spain, 150 MW) and the first part of Shams solar power station (United Arab Emirates, 100 MW). Other large PV power stations include the 320 MW Longyangxia Dam Solar Park in China, the 224 MW Charanka Solar Park in India, and the 166 MW Solarpark Meuro in Germany."
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Post by colly0410 on Dec 30, 2015 19:00:59 GMT -5
Went past the Ken Martin leisure centre (used to be Bulwell lido) today & they're building a solar car park. It's got car ports over all the parking spaces with solar panels on top of them. Be no good today as it was pouring with rain as Atlantic storm Frank was in full flow..
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Post by smshogun on Jan 1, 2016 21:51:02 GMT -5
Bulwell Lido, had some happy hours in there when I was younger.
But this is a prime example of wasting public money as its forecasted return is shown to be much less than the initial outlay and then there are the costs of maintaining the system; a prime example of squandering public (taxpayers) money and putting it into the pockets of private for profit companies.
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Post by colly0410 on Jan 2, 2016 11:16:00 GMT -5
Used to love going to Bulwell lido on a hot summers afto to perv at all the girlies in their bikinis & swimsuits, phoar...
Agree about the solar panels taking more energy to make/maintain than they'd supply... My late Father-in-law was a builder, & in his opinion a roof was made to take it's own weight plus rain & snow load & the odd bloke going up to fix a TV aerial. With the weight of solar panels year round plus the snow load in a bad winter storm, the roof could be overloaded & sag or distort causing an undetected leak into the loft/roof space... I don't know how heavy solar panels are so not sure if loading would be a problem...
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Post by John on Jan 2, 2016 11:33:10 GMT -5
Used to love going to Bulwell lido on a hot summers afto to perv at all the girlies in their bikinis & swimsuits, phoar... Agree about the solar panels taking more energy to make/maintain than they'd supply... My late Father-in-law was a builder, & in his opinion a roof was made to take it's own weight plus rain & snow load & the odd bloke going up to fix a TV aerial. With the weight of solar panels year round plus the snow load in a bad winter storm, the roof could be overloaded & sag or distort causing an undetected leak into the loft/roof space... I don't know how heavy solar panels are so not sure if loading would be a problem... That was a worry with me, 20 solar modules weighing around 45lbs each, plus the mounting rails and hardware in one area of the roof. I engineered and built my own roof trusses, the operative words would be "over engineered" But I changed my mind, and have started to build frames to mount on 5' square poles.
We had an ice storm here a few years back, we had an estimated nine tons of ice on the roof, the roof didn't creak or groan, in fact no damage at all. I constructed it of 2" x 4" standard pine, spaced at 16" centres, and had a "king post, shoulder posts" and diagonal trusses between to share the loading and make the roof and ceiling 2 x 4's act as one beam. I estimate each truss would take around 200lbs before failing, I base that figure on the screws holding the nailing plates joining each piece of the truss together. In real life I expect they would carry around 400lbs each side before they really failed. A framing carpenter who saw me building the trusses believed I'd over engineered the roof trusses. Anyway, the solar modules are being mounted in threes on frames 10 feet long, on 2" x 10" treated recycled lumber frames, pivoted on a heavy one inch steel water pipe as an axle, allowing me to seasonally track the sun.
As for the ladies Steve, I used to have a morning stroll along Wollongong beach, where the night nurses from the hospital would be sun bathing topless....I didn't look......Honest...
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Post by John on Jan 2, 2016 12:18:44 GMT -5
Some quick calculations, I came up with 19 short tons of ice over the whole roof, (2000lbs per ton) for a 3 inch layer of ice, and for approx 2 inches of ice, just over 15 tons, based on the weight of ice per cu ft of 57.2lbs.
So my estimate per truss were far exceeded. An ice storm is where you have a bitter cold layer of cold air around 100 feet from the ground upwards, and a warm layer above, with rain pouring down, it freezes on contact with everything it lands on.
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Post by colly0410 on Jan 2, 2016 16:30:17 GMT -5
My house is a spec build (1980's) so can't see the roof being made any stronger than the regulations required at the time, so wouldn't feel too comfortable with a load of panels up there. Got a detached garage with a gently slopping roof so might put a couple on there if the price comes right down, & it's south-west facing so should get plenty of sun..
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Post by John on Jan 2, 2016 17:13:18 GMT -5
My house is a spec build (1980's) so can't see the roof being made any stronger than the regulations required at the time, so wouldn't feel too comfortable with a load of panels up there. Got a detached garage with a gently slopping roof so might put a couple on there if the price comes right down, & it's south-west facing so should get plenty of sun.. Your roof is probably clay tiles, which are heavy, mine are composite shingles, with roof felt under them and 3/4" plywood sheaving under those. Code over here allows for 20" and 24" spacing of trusses. depends on the truss lumber dimensions, I just went with 2 x 4's on 16 inch centres, which is far stronger than code.
Due south is best Steve, you'll catch max sun from mid day to late afternoon, but output will be limited from sun rise to almost noon.
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rob52
Shotfirer.
Posts: 199
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Post by rob52 on Jan 3, 2016 9:59:52 GMT -5
Four Corners - The End of Coal? - 15 July 2015****** 2c worth on Solar Panels & Wind Turbines. Solar panels should only be allowed where battery energy storage is mandated, the problem is they don't deliver "peak output" at the same time as the peak demand on the network nor are they typically schedulable, where the Utilities have put in place Gov't Incentive Schemes that pay above market rate per kWHr its just ludicrous. Worse, typical domestic & Small Industrial Installations like Supermarkets/ Grocery Stores results in overvoltages on the installation premises and in Oz there has been a spike in House Fires, getting to the 220V standard (instead of 250V+ driven by the solar panels) is proving messy, made worse by cheap chinese made light fittings with small terminal blocks covered in salt mist lacking in 'insulation material science/tracking retardation & appropriate surface tracking distances. The Distribution Network is electrically skinny at 415V, the biggest pole top transformer 11kV/415V is typically 300kVA, so the Utility is now being asked to lower the electrical impedance between the Solar Panel Installations and the 11kV/415V Txf, gets messy when solar penetration exceeds 25% of Txf Nameplate Rating, in some cases the only solution is to install another pole top transformer out the front of the electrical installation of the biggest set of solar panels its that or their inverter trips off on overvoltage all the time. Wind Turbines (WT)...the power output is proportional to [(wind velocity)^3] ie cubed, overspeed the WT the blades only Yaw so far then they trip off ie go from full output to ZERO just like that some other Base Load Capable Generator has to have the "spinning reserve" to pick up the slack when the energy saving renewables drop off or you start load shedding the Network. The WT's also needs an active front end and the ability to supply VARs into a fault if they are to have any chance of "Fault Current Ride Thru" When considering Electrical Network Protection both Solar Panels and Wind Turbines are Weak Infeeds and this creates messy High Voltage Protection necessitating Modern Line Current Differential Schemes & these typically require end to end optical fibre. ...As a Weak Infeed, their max output and hence contribution into a fault would be say 1.5x FLC they therefore need to be significantly oversized the start a squirrel cage induction motor DOL or to minimise the system harmonic voltage distortion when running in an islanded mode and supplying VVVF drives associated with inverter type air conditioning compressors. The IEC 61000 series of Harmonics & Power Quality should really be enforced and Electrical Utilities should start charging with "kVA Demand Meters" so they get paid for the full beer they deliver. A 14W CFL often = 25VA because the cheap Chinese manufacturer does not want to pay the extra 2c for the chip that controls the electronics to force a sinusoidal current draw from the supply system and for an odd reason they all seem to get the "CTick Approval" regardless of the current waveshape drawn from the supply system. If you have more than 20% renewables penetration then PV Curves & Reactive Margin require very careful assessment to ensure system stability. >25% gets skatey, >30% your on your own California....But that's politicians for you, I'll keep speaking French because they don't understand anyway & don't worry about the facts they never get in the way of them espousing "Green is Good". Posted some papers to here previously How Green Is Green Energy?? Per Post Nov 20, 2013 at 11:31pmRob
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rob52
Shotfirer.
Posts: 199
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Post by rob52 on Jan 3, 2016 18:55:09 GMT -5
Discussed in previous Post Make your own graph of the bitter harvest of declineUncheck France Check/Add United Kingdom Then Add - Australia - Russian Federation - Columbia Pause to ponder Then add -India Pause to ponder Then add -Former Soviet Union Pause to ponder Then add - China .....& the irony is the political spin is "I'm sure that China & India are using Clean Coal Technology & Carbon Capture"...Yeah Right! Rob
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Post by smshogun on Jan 5, 2016 21:56:14 GMT -5
Rob, then don't put it on grid.
HHO is an excellent concept for both low voltage electricity and HHO gas and for relative low voltage input you can easily produce 60l/min of HHO for storage to run a domestic gas system and it will replenish from empty to full in 24 hours.
Use low voltage energy efficient systems and these will give weeks of lighting, my outside lighting of which there is a lot is home built is all run off grid at 12 volts and all the indoor emergency back up lighting is all 12 volts, in addition there is a water generator which does have to be fed into the system.
Gas and water from nothing more than wind and water.
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Post by smshogun on Mar 9, 2016 8:27:59 GMT -5
Rob, it has major pitfalls when feeding a grid, use solar more efficiently and it can be a good contributor and this is to adopt low voltage systems where they are suitable and their efficiency ramps up; the only practical way to do this is to install a battery pack and use 12 volt systems for things such as lighting circuits or running low voltage applications such as computers or televisions where they operate on low voltages and have inbuilt mains transformers to transform mains voltages down to the appliances working voltage and remove this appliance from mains power totally. Certain items cannot be removed from mains power but removing what you can reduces consumption, and you have to be aware many items consume more power that is claimed, TV's being one.
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Post by ncbnik on Mar 23, 2016 16:49:14 GMT -5
Well as of 13:00hrs today a bit more 'coal power' ended; Ferrybridge 'C' switched out their last (500MW) set. So we can all go off and calculate how many sunny rooftops and wind turbines we'll need to cover that.
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Post by fortythreesflyer on Mar 23, 2016 18:35:22 GMT -5
We're doomed I tell thee.
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Post by Wheldale on Mar 24, 2016 14:48:48 GMT -5
Longannet has gone offline today. Rugely will stop soon also.
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Post by ncbnik on May 30, 2016 10:18:52 GMT -5
Newsnight last week carried a report about the Nuke reactor that is supposed to solve all our power problems (and the excuse for not needing coal). Not a single reactor of this specific type has ever been completed yet, two are under construction one 8 years behind schedule the other 12 years, each one several £billions over budget. EDF (French Co.) who were going to get the Chinese to build it for us are getting 'cold feet' and one company exec has 'walked' 'cos he believes the existing projects may bust the company (never mind taking on a third).
Might be an idea not to get the demo contractors in to Ferrybridge too quickly then!
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