Donkeys!

[ann]

Just started reading a book set in a Barnsley village - someone's life story, not a novel - and donkeys are mentioned being used underground. I'd never heard of this - can anyone tell me whether this was so and if so how widespread it was? I think of donkeys as being more fragile than ponies and know (from experience with donkeys a friend owned) how bloody minded they can be if they want so just wonder how successful it would have been.

[eleceng]

Donkeys weren't used down the pit but ponies were. They were used for many years as they were the only way of transporting supplies to coal faces & other places U/G.

They were extremely well looked after, with stables & an ostler to care for them. They were brought out the pit once a year, at pit fortnight (summer holiday shut-down).

They were also intelligent. I remember one particular pony who could count. LOL. When he was hooked up to his "train", he would move forward one wagon at a time, he

would only pull 3, thus 3 bumps & he would go. If there was a 4th bump hell or high water wouldn't make him move.

[dazbt]

Oct 25, 2015 15:30:51 GMT -5 ann said:

Just started reading a book set in a Barnsley village - someone's life story, not a novel - and donkeys are mentioned being used underground. I'd never heard of this - can anyone tell me whether this was so and if so how widespread it was? I think of donkeys as being more fragile than ponies and know (from experience with donkeys a friend owned) how bloody minded they can be if they want so just wonder how successful it would have been.

Not only donkeys 'were' used underground in coal mines but believe it or not so were asses, goats and even dogs. Donkeys were still being used in coal mines in countries such as India, China, Pakistan and Afghanistan until at least fairly recently, camel trains were used at least up to 1982 in China and Mongolia to transport coal in side-borne panniers long distances from the mines although not underground as far as I know. So, the chances of donkeys being used in Barnsley pits isn't beyond the realms of probability but, not very likely in recent times.

[tygwyn]

A Mule was used in Ochr y waen Colliery,a Smallmine in Cwmllynfell in the Upper Swansea Valley,

The only one i have ever heard of in South Wales.

[dazbt]

[ann]

Thanks for the replies folks. I know of the ponies as my Great Grandad was the horse keeper at Church Lane pit at Barnsley - from about 1860's to early 1900's - but was just curious as to whether he might have had donkeys in his care as well. Interesting to hear of a mule working - they're known for their intelligence.

[dazbt]

[ann]

Poor donkey in the photo  Little stick like legs. And you wouldn't think the dogs could pull that!

[dazbt]

[ann]

Interesting photos dazbt. Nice to have a bit of recognition for the different animals that worked side by side with the miners. I keep threatening my pony that I'm going to make him work for a living and am looking out for any openings for him down the pit

[John]

Oct 25, 2015 16:30:06 GMT -5 dazbt said:

Oct 25, 2015 15:30:51 GMT -5 ann said:

Just started reading a book set in a Barnsley village - someone's life story, not a novel - and donkeys are mentioned being used underground. I'd never heard of this - can anyone tell me whether this was so and if so how widespread it was? I think of donkeys as being more fragile than ponies and know (from experience with donkeys a friend owned) how bloody minded they can be if they want so just wonder how successful it would have been.

Not only donkeys 'were' used underground in coal mines but believe it or not so were asses, goats and even dogs. Donkeys were still being used in coal mines in countries such as India, China, Pakistan and Afghanistan until at least fairly recently, camel trains were used at least up to 1982 in China and Mongolia to transport coal in side-borne panniers long distances from the mines although not underground as far as I know. So, the chances of donkeys being used in Barnsley pits isn't beyond the realms of probability but, not very likely in recent times.

Never heard of Donkey's used U/G, but worked with a fair few "asses" in my time, for want of a better word....

[dazbt]

Fair evidence here of donkeys being used in Barnsley coal mines at least in 1866;

www.healeyhero.co.uk/rescue/pits/Oak/Oak.htm

“As the rescue parties penetrated deeper into the mine bodies were found; as one rescuer said "everything on my way was dead" men, boys, horses and donkeys "all the bodies only slightly burned but the clothes were blown (off) or torn by the Blast".

[dazbt]

Oct 25, 2015 15:30:51 GMT -5 ann said:

Just started reading a book set in a Barnsley village - someone's life story, not a novel - and donkeys are mentioned being used underground. I'd never heard of this - can anyone tell me whether this was so and if so how widespread it was? I think of donkeys as being more fragile than ponies and know (from experience with donkeys a friend owned) how bloody minded they can be if they want so just wonder how successful it would have been.

Tell us a bit more about the book Ann, title, author and the area it relates to, please.

[colly0410]

It says near the end of the Healeyhero article that the "mine sucked, they knew this was was a sign of an explosion!" & "5 mins later the the mine exploded!" Never heard of any pre-warnings of an explosion. Did "sucked" mean ventilation reversal or something?

BTW sounds an interesting book. Thanks for posting about it Ann...

[dazbt]

Oct 26, 2015 5:58:17 GMT -5 colly0410 said:

It says near the end of the Healeyhero article that the "mine sucked, they knew this was was a sign of an explosion!" & "5 mins later the the mine exploded!" Never heard of any pre-warnings of an explosion. Did "sucked" mean ventilation reversal or something?

BTW sounds an interesting book. Thanks for posting about it Ann...

In a previous “life” as part of my job I had to attend a course which involved some basic escape and rescue tactics from houses and other buildings (not underground facilities) and I recall seeing a video of an actual fire within a huge derelict mill, the fire was being fought from the outside by several fire service units, it was intense and burning throughout several storeys, suddenly the flames stopped, some relatively minimal burning continued and the production of dense smoke seemed to increase, at this point senior fire officers gave urgent orders for the fire fighters to withdraw, what seemed like long pause ensued and we the audience presumed that the fire was burnt out, then suddenly after quite some time the building exploded, the front wall of the mill was demolished in the huge blast and debris was blasted throughout the area that the firemen had been, undoubtedly had the warning signs not been acted upon lives would have been lost in the blast. We were told that this was a frequent experience where the large fire has burnt most of the Oxygen within the building, the flames thus die back but smoke and gasses continue to be produced, the outcome is that the building then breathes and a sudden and huge volume of “fresh air” is drawn or “sucked” into the void and obviously creates a sudden re-conflagration which not only creates the violent increase in flames but causes the ignition of gasses within the smoke (Carbon monoxide being explosive in itself, along with other combustibles). So quite possibly the sucking observed at The Oaks was the result of a similar action, a fire consuming the immediate oxygen supply, a pause, continued reduced burning creating combustible Co, the drawing in of large quantities of air, followed by a violent flare up and explosion.

[ann]

The book's called "Guard a Silver Sixpence" by Felicity Davis. She's a lady who had a very traumatic upbringing born illegitimate and looked after by her mentally ill grandmother. In her 50's she realised that she still felt scarred by what had happened and set about looking into her family history as there were hints that "something" had happened to cause her grandmother to be as she was - she just wanted some answers and a bit of closure. Her family were from a village on the outskirts of Barnsley and looking back she found that relatives were lost in the Oaks disaster of 1866. There are a couple of chapters about the Oaks- one relating to the disaster itself and another talking about exactly what it meant to those left without their men and boys afterwards. To be honest there was a point that I had to stop and take a breather as I genuinely was feeling so moved by what I was reading. To give an example - there was a lady only identified as "Mrs AMG" who was a little bit of a Lady Bountiful going round the families in the weeks after the disaster and inviting them to say psalms with her. But what she also did was to record people's emotions. She writes of visiting a woman who was left with 4 young children who said "My husband was such a kind man. Often when he came home at night, I would take his black face into my hands and say to him "Oh my happy, happy home". No one could have wished for a better husband or a better friend". Reading that touched a chord with me and I had to stop reading for a while at that point.

The mention of donkeys (that caused my initial question) was in the Oaks - a young lad was brought out (badly injured but just about alive) as in the blast a donkey he was huddled beside was blown on top of him, killed instantly but shielding him. His mother was quoted as saying "it was the donkey that saved him".

[dazbt]

Thanks for that Ann, very good review of the book, I'm off looking for a copy now.
(Just by the way, does the book give any suggestion that the author's family included Jack Swann the boxer?)

[ann]

I'm still part way through and although the Swann family feature there hasn't been a mention of a boxer so far - the men all seem to have been glass blowers.

[dazbt]

I've managed to get hold of used copy for £1.95 via Amazon, looking forward to receiving it.

[ann]

Hope you enjoy it - the chapters about The Oaks are certainly very well written.

[Clive]

Oct 25, 2015 16:08:20 GMT -5 eleceng said:

Donkeys weren't used down the pit but ponies were. They were used for many years as they were the only way of transporting supplies to coal faces & other places U/G.

They were extremely well looked after, with stables & an ostler to care for them. They were brought out the pit once a year, at pit fortnight (summer holiday shut-down).

They were also intelligent. I remember one particular pony who could count. LOL. When he was hooked up to his "train", he would move forward one wagon at a time, he

would only pull 3, thus 3 bumps & he would go. If there was a 4th bump hell or high water wouldn't make him move.

Donkeys used in Bunkers Hill Colliery, Bacup, closed 1860's

plans call at least 2 road ways as 'Donkey Gate'

[dazbt]

Oct 27, 2015 13:05:52 GMT -5 ann said:

Hope you enjoy it - the chapters about The Oaks are certainly very well written.

re the book, I've sent you a PM (check your messages)

[merlin]

i was told that donkeys where used at bersham colliyery north wales one went missing never foulding him