Protector SL lamp

[red5]

Hello all, I have recently acquired a protector SL lamp and have problem with the wick, it won't stay lit. The lamp was dry so I have filled it up with fuel changed the wick and left it over night so the felts can soak up the fuel. The wick is soaking the fuel up but when I light the lamp it goes out after a few minutes, the wick doesn't seem to be drawing the fuel up quick enough to keep it burning. Anyone got any suggestions, thanks.

[John]

Feb 8, 2015 11:24:39 GMT -5 red5 said:

Hello all, I have recently acquired a protector SL lamp and have problem with the wick, it won't stay lit. The lamp was dry so I have filled it up with fuel changed the wick and left it over night so the felts can soak up the fuel. The wick is soaking the fuel up but when I light the lamp it goes out after a few minutes, the wick doesn't seem to be drawing the fuel up quick enough to keep it burning. Anyone got any suggestions, thanks.

The "top" wick is a short piece around a couple of inches long, try and push it deeper into the wick tube, it has to touch the bottom wick, which goes into the base and is pinned in place.

[red5]

Thanks, I've tried doing that but it still goes out, ive even swapped wicks from another SL lamp that works with no luck. I'm beginning to think the felts maybe contaminated and are not absorbing enough fuel!

[John]

Feb 8, 2015 13:03:39 GMT -5 red5 said:

Thanks, I've tried doing that but it still goes out, ive even swapped wicks from another SL lamp that works with no luck. I'm beginning to think the felts maybe contaminated and are not absorbing enough fuel!

It's a possibility the felts do need to be replaced, that's a PITA job though, you will need a high wattage soldering iron to unsolder the base.

What fuel are you using, best after market fuel that's about as close to colzalene as you can get is Coleman camping stove/lamp fuel, it even smells like the original fuel, though a bit on the expensive side.

[red5]

I'm using citronella lamp oil (insect repellant) I had some in the garden shed and used it in another lamp I bought, it burns well. Think I may give up on this one as it was only bought as an ornament, my other half wanted one hanging each side of our log burner! 

[John]

Feb 8, 2015 13:53:22 GMT -5 red5 said:

I'm using citronella lamp oil (insect repellant) I had some in the garden shed and used it in another lamp I bought, it burns well. Think I may give up on this one as it was only bought as an ornament, my other half wanted one hanging each side of our log burner! 

I'd say that's your problem, the oil isn't as volatile as lamp oil. I searched around for ages until I came across Coleman's camping stove/lamp oil, it's the perfect substitute, in fact my guess be the smell, both out the can and burning, it's exactly what we filled our lamps with at the collieries.
Even the correct oil can be a pig sometimes, I've seen Deputies get a little annoyed trying to re light their lamps underground.

[red5]

Ok I'll give that a go thanks for your help.

[dazbt]

Does this type of lamp have a breather and if it does, then what effect would that being blocked have on maintaining the flame? I have no idea about flame safety lamps but I did have a problem with a greenhouse paraffin heater once when the breather in the filler cap became blocked, not quite what red5 is describing but my heater flame flared up, produced soot and eventually extinguished itself.

[John]

Feb 9, 2015 13:47:32 GMT -5 dazbt said:

Does this type of lamp have a breather and if it does, then what effect would that being blocked have on maintaining the flame? I have no idea about flame safety lamps but I did have a problem with a greenhouse paraffin heater once when the breather in the filler cap became blocked, not quite what red5 is describing but my heater flame flared up, produced soot and eventually extinguished itself.

They rely on capillary action Daz, also they don't contain any free fuel in the form of liquid, when you fill them, after half an hour, excess fuel is drained out, the rest is soaked into the base filler material.
The filler is just covered by the locking mechanism, so plenty of air will get into the base.

If the gauze's get completely blocked, they will go out and fail to relight, but in the years I worked with oil lamps, I never saw this happen.

Part of my surface electricians duties was lamp room attendant at Angus Place. Gauze's had to be cleaned every time the lamp had been used, both gauze's checked under a magnifying glass for broken wires.

I can only make a guess as I don't have the lamp in front of me, but fuel he's using just isn't volatile enough, the fuel we used was highly flammable.

[dazbt]

Feb 9, 2015 14:04:24 GMT -5 John said:

Feb 9, 2015 13:47:32 GMT -5 dazbt said:

Does this type of lamp have a breather and if it does, then what effect would that being blocked have on maintaining the flame? I have no idea about flame safety lamps but I did have a problem with a greenhouse paraffin heater once when the breather in the filler cap became blocked, not quite what red5 is describing but my heater flame flared up, produced soot and eventually extinguished itself.

They rely on capillary action Daz, also they don't contain any free fuel in the form of liquid, when you fill them, after half an hour, excess fuel is drained out, the rest is soaked into the base filler material.
The filler is just covered by the locking mechanism, so plenty of air will get into the base.

If the gauze's get completely blocked, they will go out and fail to relight, but in the years I worked with oil lamps, I never saw this happen.

Part of my surface electricians duties was lamp room attendant at Angus Place. Gauze's had to be cleaned every time the lamp had been used, both gauze's checked under a magnifying glass for broken wires.

I can only make a guess as I don't have the lamp in front of me, but fuel he's using just isn't volatile enough, the fuel we used was highly flammable.

I've just watched a Youtube clip on filling a Protecter lamp

and I can see what you mean about the filler cap being part of the locking device and obviously not being an air tight closure, which then beggars the question of why there is no risk of fumes off the highly flammable material being exposed, obviously there can't be any danger in using this lamp but why not? All the stringency of FLP interfaces and here it would seem there is an example of an open vent that seems to exposes a highly inflammable substance to atmosphere. I realise that the oil is held within the 'felt' and wouldn't bee free to run out of this gap but what about fumes being able to escape especially if the flame is out.

[John]

Feb 11, 2015 3:11:56 GMT -5 dazbt said:

Feb 9, 2015 14:04:24 GMT -5 John said:

They rely on capillary action Daz, also they don't contain any free fuel in the form of liquid, when you fill them, after half an hour, excess fuel is drained out, the rest is soaked into the base filler material.
The filler is just covered by the locking mechanism, so plenty of air will get into the base.

If the gauze's get completely blocked, they will go out and fail to relight, but in the years I worked with oil lamps, I never saw this happen.

Part of my surface electricians duties was lamp room attendant at Angus Place. Gauze's had to be cleaned every time the lamp had been used, both gauze's checked under a magnifying glass for broken wires.

I can only make a guess as I don't have the lamp in front of me, but fuel he's using just isn't volatile enough, the fuel we used was highly flammable.

I've just watched a Youtube clip on filling a Protecter lamp

and I can see what you mean about the filler cap being part of the locking device and obviously not being an air tight closure, which then beggars the question of why there is no risk of fumes off the highly flammable material being exposed, obviously there can't be any danger in using this lamp but why not? All the stringency of FLP interfaces and here it would seem there is an example of an open vent that seems to exposes a highly inflammable substance to atmosphere. I realise that the oil is held within the 'felt' and wouldn't bee free to run out of this gap but what about fumes being able to escape especially if the flame is out.

Never given that one a thought Daz, even that same point was never raised in Mining Science classes when we were taught about the lamp, theory and practice, many years back. I suppose it's just a negligible amount and was worth the slight risks due to the lamps life saving capabilities.
I've seen the lamp "pop" many times when being lit, so it does have explosive capabilities, but remember the rules regarding relightable lamps, "they must only be relit in fresh air"

But I suppose we could say the same thing about batteries, both the ones we had for our cap lamps and battery locos, they generated large quantities of hydrogen and oxygen when operating and charging.


Just an edited addition, pity Bill doesn't show up now and again, especially on the point I'll raise here and now, I wonder how many ignitions of gas have been attributable to flame safety lamps??? As far as I'm aware, not many Inquiries have pointed the finger at them, but I'll bet a few.
The Appin disaster in NSW was thought at first to have been caused by a faulty oil lamp. The Deputies lamp was send to a lab for exhaustive tests, it was found with broken wires in the gauzes, but tests concluded on the gauzes showed it was not the cause.

[morlock]

I cannot see any problem with fuel fumes venting from the lamp as said fumes are outside the lamp, along with any methane or other flammable gases?

[andyexplorer]

Can I just say that he's clogged the lamp up with heavy oil , SL's run on the much finer naphtha solvent type petroleum spirit
I've not come across an "oiler that has "felts" in it , I thought that the felt was there to hold the solvent to stop it leaking out ?
I would imagine if the felts are soaked with heavy oil , then that's where it will stay
I think I saw this discussion on "the other site" and I asked How can you light an SL without the electronic igniter ?
These were safety lamps designed to stop manual lighting.

I have the Colzalene can from Daw Mill lamp room and it is stuffed with metal swarf to stabilise the colza when pouring

[morlock]

Feb 23, 2015 8:50:21 GMT -5 andyexplorer said:

"I have the Colzalene can from Daw Mill lamp room and it is stuffed with metal swarf to stabilise the colza when pouring"


I thought the 'swarf' was the anti-flash filling?

[andyexplorer]

Feb 24, 2015 9:17:16 GMT -5 morlock said:

Feb 23, 2015 8:50:21 GMT -5 andyexplorer said:

"I have the Colzalene can from Daw Mill lamp room and it is stuffed with metal swarf to stabilise the colza when pouring"


I thought the 'swarf' was the anti-flash filling?

I don't know , I thought it would stabilised / slow it down a bit when you pour it ?
But with Colzalene being such a light spirit it tends to spill very easy , also on lamps with felts in , if you over fill them , as they heat up the spirit
expands and leaks out around the filler door on the lamp

[John]

Feb 24, 2015 16:23:04 GMT -5 andyexplorer said:

Feb 24, 2015 9:17:16 GMT -5 morlock said:

I don't know , I thought it would stabilised / slow it down a bit when you pour it ?
But with Colzalene being such a light spirit it tends to spill very easy , also on lamps with felts in , if you over fill them , as they heat up the spirit
expands and leaks out around the filler door on the lamp

There shouldn't be ANY excess fuel to expand and overflow. Correct procedure in filling, was to top the lamp up, leave for around half an hour to an hour for the felt to absorb the fuel, then to drain the excess off into the filler can, then lock the lamp ready for service.
That was part of my job or whoever was the surface elec for swing shift and night shift. Once the lamp was sealed we tested the lamp to make sure it would light, and check the flame to see that it could be lowered to a testing flame for the Deputies and the shift U/M. Then last thing was to sign in the book provided by the mine owner that all lamps had been maintained and tested in accordance with the CMRA.

We didn't have workmen's lamps, just Officials lamps when I worked for the NSW Elec Commission.
At AI&S Collieries, they had workmen's lamps, the CM Drivers carried a lamp, the none relightable lamps, but with that company, the Bathroom attendant was also the appointed Lamproom Officer.

[morlock]

Feb 24, 2015 16:23:04 GMT -5 andyexplorer said:

Feb 24, 2015 9:17:16 GMT -5 morlock said:

I don't know , I thought it would stabilised / slow it down a bit when you pour it ?
But with Colzalene being such a light spirit it tends to spill very easy , also on lamps with felts in , if you over fill them , as they heat up the spirit
expands and leaks out around the filler door on the lamp

I'm not 100% sure either but suspect the 'swarf' is similar the pan scourer type flame suppressant in fuel cans.


www.firstbrands.co.uk/rhino-fuel-cans.html

[andyexplorer]

That's exactly it , pan scourer (I just called it swarf) Just seen that picture Exactly same can only in Red

[andyexplorer]

Feb 24, 2015 18:41:42 GMT -5 John said:

Feb 24, 2015 16:23:04 GMT -5 andyexplorer said:

I don't know , I thought it would stabilised / slow it down a bit when you pour it ?
But with Colzalene being such a light spirit it tends to spill very easy , also on lamps with felts in , if you over fill them , as they heat up the spirit
expands and leaks out around the filler door on the lamp

There shouldn't be ANY excess fuel to expand and overflow. Correct procedure in filling, was to top the lamp up, leave for around half an hour to an hour for the felt to absorb the fuel, then to drain the excess off into the filler can, then lock the lamp ready for service.
That was part of my job or whoever was the surface elec for swing shift and night shift. Once the lamp was sealed we tested the lamp to make sure it would light, and check the flame to see that it could be lowered to a testing flame for the Deputies and the shift U/M. Then last thing was to sign in the book provided by the mine owner that all lamps had been maintained and tested in accordance with the CMRA.

We didn't have workmen's lamps, just Officials lamps when I worked for the NSW Elec Commission.
At AI&S Collieries, they had workmen's lamps, the CM Drivers carried a lamp, the none relightable lamps, but with that company, the Bathroom attendant was also the appointed Lamproom Officer.

I know I said "If you over fill them", which I did once or twice

[kundyhole]

red5

I think your problem has been answered above .

We use zippo lighter fuel in a GR6S works perfectly everytime



not sure how you will get the heavy oil out though !


Gruß


Max

[nigel]

Hi guys, I am having the same problems here too. I bought and cleaned up 2 lamps last year, and they worked fine. Have recently taken them out and filled with fuel, but they just won't draw fuel up to the wick. Am I right in thinking that there are 2 wicks, one fixed in the bottom of the fuel reservoir, and a replaceable one in the wick tube? I have replaced the top wick, but still no joy. The bottom wick appears very compacted in the tube, is this normal? I have tried filling the tube with fuel to see if it will kick start the process, but still no luck. I am using Coleman's fuel. Can the bottom wick be changed, if so, any pointers as to how. Thanking you in advance.

[John]

May 24, 2015 14:12:51 GMT -5 nigel said:

Hi guys, I am having the same problems here too. I bought and cleaned up 2 lamps last year, and they worked fine. Have recently taken them out and filled with fuel, but they just won't draw fuel up to the wick. Am I right in thinking that there are 2 wicks, one fixed in the bottom of the fuel reservoir, and a replaceable one in the wick tube? I have replaced the top wick, but still no joy. The bottom wick appears very compacted in the tube, is this normal? I have tried filling the tube with fuel to see if it will kick start the process, but still no luck. I am using Coleman's fuel. Can the bottom wick be changed, if so, any pointers as to how. Thanking you in advance.

Replacing the bottom wick is a major job, you have to unsolder the base, as you say, the top wick is very short and a replaceable section.
I've only seen one lamp that had to have the bottom removed to replace the main wick, our workshop leading hand did that one, he used a very high wattage soldering iron to desolder it. DON'T use a propane torch or Oxy acetylene torch, way too hot!! They will burn the felt in the base of the lamp.

Sounds very much like, someone in the past has used paraffin or some other unsuitable fuel.

[hiker]

On the subject of lamps, I have my lamp from when I was a deputy.  I want to show my grandsons how it works and what it was used for.  I am in the process of refurbishing and want to put in a new wick. Can anyone tell me the diameter of the wick and the best place to get one.

[boaz]

www.protectorlamp.com wick £15

[hiker]

Wow! That seems very expensive considering I only need less than 2inches.  Is there no equivalent?

[John]

May 22, 2019 9:37:48 GMT -5 hiker said:

Wow! That seems very expensive considering I only need less than 2inches.  Is there no equivalent?

Yes all parts are expensive from them, you could try doing a search, could be a an old lamproom worker who borrowed a few and selling parts on the internet, try Ebay too.
Remember the wick is in two parts, longest is in the base and held by a pin, the second the top one is short and just pushed down the wick tube to feed off the main wick.

[hiker]

Thanks for that, it is only the top wick I need.  I will take up your suggestion and see what a wider search comes up with.  Cheers.

[John]

May 23, 2019 23:37:50 GMT -5 hiker said:

Thanks for that, it is only the top wick I need.  I will take up your suggestion and see what a wider search comes up with.  Cheers.

The wicks come in about 6" lengths, you cut the top wick from it, I forget how long it is now, been years since I changed one.

[hiker]

£15 for 6ins of wick! No wonder NCB struggled to make a profit. 

[Wheldale]

May 28, 2019 13:59:42 GMT -5 hiker said:

£15 for 6ins of wick! No wonder NCB struggled to make a profit. 

The wick is 1/4 inch round wick or 7mm. Loads on eBay for about 3 quid or so. Protector sell lamp parts but all seem excessively priced.