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Post by geoffs125 on Dec 17, 2018 13:14:34 GMT -5
Whats the best way to extinguish the flame in the lamp? The lamps are Protector Type 6 with a flint igniter Thanks in advance
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Post by John on Dec 18, 2018 6:58:25 GMT -5
Whats the best way to extinguish the flame in the lamp? The lamps are Protector Type 6 with a flint igniter Thanks in advance Sudden drop usually extinguishes a lamp, I don't mean drop it on the floor!! Lower the flame and drop your arm holding the lamp fast.
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Post by geoffs125 on Dec 18, 2018 7:44:48 GMT -5
Whats the best way to extinguish the flame in the lamp? The lamps are Protector Type 6 with a flint igniter Thanks in advance Sudden drop usually extinguishes a lamp, I don't mean drop it on the floor!! Lower the flame and drop your arm holding the lamp fast.John, many thanks for the advice, shocked that I managed to do it first time.
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Post by geoffs125 on Dec 18, 2018 8:40:49 GMT -5
Could someone explain how to the fuel filler cover is locked/secured? The two lamps I have do not have a magnetic lock.
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Post by John on Dec 18, 2018 16:41:14 GMT -5
Could someone explain how to the fuel filler cover is locked/secured? The two lamps I have do not have a magnetic lock. One type used a piece of lead wire crimped at each end, another used a lead rivet.
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Post by John on Dec 18, 2018 16:45:14 GMT -5
Sudden drop usually extinguishes a lamp, I don't mean drop it on the floor!! Lower the flame and drop your arm holding the lamp fast. John, many thanks for the advice, shocked that I managed to do it first time. Fellers who were authorised to carry a none relightable lamp had to be careful, as they are so easy to extinguish, Officials didn't have to worry as they could relight their own.
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Post by smithy on Jan 13, 2019 13:51:38 GMT -5
I have obtained a Protector Type 6 lamp (Eccles, near Manchester) from an antique shop. It was very expensive. Then again, it was an almost prefect specimen. It has a tiny dent and no scratches at all, which possibly is a museum-quality piece. The deputy who owned it might have made sure it didn't see much actions, or himself. A deputy lamp has a relighter which could be used underground in mines or quarries.
1/ The plate reads, which is identical to most others, "THE PROTECTOR LAMP & LIGHTING Co. Ltd. TYPE 6 M & Q SAFETY LAMPS APPROVAL No. B/28 MAKERS ECCLES". 2/ Fuel used: Coleman Fuel. It costs £10 a litre at GO Outdoors. DO NOT USE PETROL. As someone had said, "unless your house is exceptionally well insured." 3/ Flint: common lighter flint Ø2 × 5 mm. I have tried Clipper and Swan. Both work just fine. 4/ Wick: common round cotton wick Ø6.5 mm (1/4"). It needs about 25 mm to get from the felt inside to the top of the brass wick tube, which is used to adjust the flame. Some say in a GR6S lamp, it was replaced by a stainless steel one to improve resistance against flame erosion. 5/ Washers: Two non-asbestos fibre washers Ø58 × Ø45 × 1.6 mm thick
How to fuel?
6/ When burnt dry, it takes about 50ml of fuel. Put in a half of it, leave it for 5 minutes; put in a quarter, leave it for 5 minutes; and put in the rest. 7/ After the felt inside absorbed it all up, there should be no free fuel. If any, drain it. 8/ I find using a plastic squeeze bottle leave no mess at all.
How to light?
9/ Tip the lamp upside down for a minute and make the tip of the wick rich in fuel. 10/ Expose about 3 mm of the wick above the top of the flame adjuster. 11/ Tuck in the steel ignition key gently. If you have a good spark, it usually lights up first time. 12/ Unlike some Youtube videos, I find it unnecessary to bang at it especially hard. Hold the lamp base at one hand; tug the key in. It works just fine. 13/ Once lit, reduce the flame quickly to a desirable height. 14/ For a medium flame height of 10 mm, one load of fuel burns for 12+ hours. 15/ For a tiny flame (a blue triangular one with a tint of yellow at the apex), the lamp burns for 96+ hours. The is actually the gas detection setting for firedamp and blackdamp. At this setting, the wick is about 1.5 mm below the top of the brass tube.
How to extinguish?
16/ Give it a sharp tuck downward. You might need to try it for a couple of times. Don't bang it on anything. Don't hurt your lamp or yourselves.
How to lock?
17/ It is a deputy's lamp! You're an official not a feller. It doesn't have a magnetic lock. I use a piece of 4 mm² copper wire to make a stylish springy loop to keep the fuel door shut.
Refuelling?
18/ Contrary to Point 7, I can actually refuel it alright while the lamp is lit. Do it at your own risk. 19/ I wonder how refuelling is done at the pits. Any real miners around here? 20/ Some say that a lamp needs to be stripped down for cleaning and inspection everyday.
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Post by John on Jan 13, 2019 14:36:09 GMT -5
No Deputy would use a lowered flame to test for blackdamp, blackdamp would usually be found in unventilated workings or the edge of a goaf, so he'd need a raised flame and be watching the flame while moving the lamp to the edge of the suspected blackdamp.
One nightshift I had to carry out an examination of a pump in the T/G of a longwall district. We had strong thunderstorms and very low atmospheric pressure on the surface, so methane and blackdamp was to be expected. Before going U/G I went to see the shift U/M and inform him of my intentions, he told me under no circumstances was I to enter the T/G without the outbye Deputy to escort me into thr T/G which was the return air road as blackdamp had been reported by the swingshift outbye Deputy leaking out the goaf of the previous longwall. Both myself and the pumper waited at a fresh air station for the Deputy who led us through the air doors and into the T/G, he checked his lamp and raised the flame to a reasonable height and instructed us to monitor his lamp as we walked inbye, he held it at arms length by his side. Each cut through, the flame lowered, showing blackdamp was pouring out the goaf, we'd covered about 100 yards when we passed another cut through where the flame was extinguished, remember, the lamp was being carried around 18 inches above ground level, so we were still breathing clean air! He tried to relight the lamp, but no joy, so we beat a hasty retreat back to fresh air, where his lamp relit with ease. We were very lucky to get out that night. The only time a Deputy, or shotfirer, or Overman would use a lowered flame would be to test for firedamp, (methane air mix).
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Post by smithy on Jan 13, 2019 15:36:04 GMT -5
It's good to hear from a real miner. Yea, it possibly isn't very nice to positively identity blackdamp but find it too dark to get out. Even though CO₂ tends to sink to the ground, but if there was 3% (normal level is < 0.1%) of CO₂ at 18 inches from the ground, the chance was that oxygen level (normally at 21% and a flame goes out at 18%) at a man's height had also been reduced. Hence, the difficulty in relighting.
I'm just goofing around and doing my little science experiment. In a school physics class, I heard all about Davy's lamp. I'm so happy to get hold of one. Guess what? I did pour very flammable gas towards a lamp.
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Post by John on Jan 13, 2019 17:26:24 GMT -5
It's good to hear from a real miner. Yea, it possibly isn't very nice to positively identity blackdamp but find it too dark to get out. Even though CO₂ tends to sink to the ground, but if there was 3% (normal level is < 0.1%) of CO₂ at 18 inches from the ground, the chance was that oxygen level (normally at 21% and a flame goes out at 18%) at a man's height had also been reduced. Hence, the difficulty in relighting.
I'm just goofing around and doing my little science experiment. In a school physics class, I heard all about Davy's lamp. I'm so happy to get hold of one. Guess what? I did pour very flammable gas towards a lamp. I'm a colliery electrician trained in the 60's under the old NCB, retired now and worked at my last colliery in NSW Australia. Blackdamp technically means "lack of oxygen" generally nitrogen and CO2, hence deadly. When I was about 18, I was working with an electrician at Clifton Colliery in Nottingham and we had to recover some switchgear from an old stub heading. it was much lower than the road, around four feet in fact, and we had to squeeze through the gap into the heading. I'm pretty sure we worked in blackdamp, I was feeling drowsy when we got out of there, which could signal low oxygen levels.
Although all the officials at my last pit carried a Safety lamp, required by law, methane was tested for by a MSA D6 methanometer, not the oil lamp.
All the electrical staff at my last pit, Angus Place were trained and authorised as "Lamp Room Officers" and the swing shift and night shift surface electricians serviced the cap lamps, oil lamps, self rescuers and D6 methanometers as well as surface elec duties. Hence my experience with the flame safety lamps.
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Post by smithy on Jan 27, 2019 13:54:39 GMT -5
Thank you, John, for his corrections. I now have revised it and hopefully the follows might be useful for someone.--- * --- * ---Protector Type 6 Lamp (a.k.a. Eccles Lamp) Davy miners’ safety lamp I have obtained a Protector Type 6 Lamp (Eccles, near Manchester) from an antique shop (Picture 10). It was very expensive. Then again, it is an almost prefect specimen. It has only a few tiny dents, some minor scratches and minor signs of wear and tear, and possibly is a museum-quality piece. The deputy who owned it might have made sure it didn't see much action, or himself. A deputy lamp has a relighter which can be used underground in mines or quarries.1/ The name plate reads, which is identical to most others, "THE PROTECTOR LAMP & LIGHTING Co. Ltd. TYPE 6 M & Q SAFETY LAMPS APPROVAL No. B/28 MAKERS ECCLES".2/ Fuel used: Coleman Fuel. It costs £10 a litre at GO Outdoors. DO NOT USE PETROL. As someone had said, "unless your house is exceptionally well insured.” <https://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/coleman-liquid-fuel-p175327>3/ Flint: common lighter flint Ø2 × 5 mm. I have tried Clipper and Swan. Either works great. Manufacturer’s original replacement flint measures Ø2.9 × 4.5 mm. It costs £15 for a pack of two. About half the the length is usable for any kind. If a flint is allowed to wear down too much. It runs the risk of jamming inside of the flint holder.4/ Wick: common round cotton wick Ø6.5 mm (1/4"). It needs about 25 mm to get from the felt inside to the top of the brass wick tube, which is used to adjust the flame. Some say in a GR6S lamp (a.k.a. the Garforth Lamp), it was replaced by a stainless steel one to improve resistance against flame erosion.4a/ For the best performance, a wick need to be trimmed for about (depending on the height of the flame) every five loads of fuel to remove carbonised particles.4b/ When changing a wick, the bottom of the wick should levelled and squared and free from any strayed yarns, thus making good contact with the permanent wick inside the fuel container. The top of the wick should be trimmed to about 2 mm below the top of the wick tube, when the latter is full extended but with the threads still engaged. I have not yet changed the wick for the second time, so I don’t how long it will last. I think it could trimmed for many times. I hazard a guess of somewhere between five and ten trimmings. 5/ Washers: Two non-asbestos fibre washers Ø58 × Ø45 × 1.6 mm thickHow to fuel?6/ When burnt dry, it takes up about 80ml of fuel. Pour three quarters of it in, leave it for 5 minutes and put the rest in. When you hear a gurgling sound, it is about to fill up. Do not over fill.7/ After the felt inside absorbed it all up, there should be no free fuel. If any, drain it.8/ I find using a plastic squeeze bottle leave no mess at all.How to light?9/ Tip the lamp upside down for a minute and let the tip of the wick becomes fuel rich.10/ Expose about 4 mm of the wick above the top of the wick tube.11/ Tuck in the steel striker key gently but firmly. If you have a good spark, it usually lights up first time.12/ Unlike some Youtube videos, I find it unnecessary to bang at it especially hard. Place the lamp base on a level surface; tuck the striker in. It works just fine.13/ Once lit, reduce the flame quickly to a desirable height.14/ If you accidentally extinguish it when adjusting the flame, it possibly won’t light up again straight away. The is because the residue heat vaporises some fuel and make the chamfer too fuel rich. Breathe into the lamp. Exhaled air contains 18% oxygen. And the lamp can be lit normally.15/ For a medium flame height of 10 mm (Picture 8), one load of fuel burns for 12+ hours.16/ With a tiny flame — a blue triangular one with a tint of yellow at the apex (Picture 7), the lamp burns for 60+ hours. This is actually the firedamp (methane) detection setting, where the wick is about 1.5 mm below the top of the wick tube.17/ To detect the present of blackdamp (a mixture of carbon dioxide, nitrogen and water vapour), raise the flame to a reasonable height (Picture 9). People will become affected when oxygen level is below 17%. A flame goes out when oxygen level is below 16%. Normal atmosphere is composed of 21% oxygen and less than 0.1% carbon dioxide.How to extinguish?18/ Give it a sharp tug downwards. You might need to try it for a couple of times. Don't bang it on anything. Don't hurt yourselves or your lamp.19/ A wick should be fully retracted when not in use.How to lock?20/ It is a deputy's lamp! You're an official not a feller. It doesn't have a magnetic lock. I use a piece of 4 mm² copper wire to make a stylish springy loop to keep the fuel door shut.Refuelling21/ Contrary to Point 7, I can actually refuel it alright while the lamp is lit. Do it at your own risk.22/ I wonder how refuelling is done at the pits. Any real miners around here?23/ Some say that a lamp needs to be stripped down for cleaning and inspection everyday.Picture creditsPicture 12(a): Protector Type 6 Lamp advertisementThe Protector Lamp & Lighting Co. Ltd<https://www.protectorlamp.com/miners-lamp-information/>Picture 12(b): Garforth Lamps Flame ShapesNational Coal Mining Museum for England<https://www.ncm.org.uk/downloads/27/Mine_gases.pdf>Picture 11: Protector Type 6 Lamp cross sectional viewreel.ru Russian e-commerce web site<http://deel.ru/shop.nsf/pages/art5408/$file/Инструкция на лампу ART 5408 Eccles Protector Easter - Deel.ru.pdf>Off topic: A modified Type 6 lamp was used as a part of the Rio 2016 Olympic touch relay. They carried several of them on commercial flights.<http://deel.ru/shop.nsf/pages/art5408>Same type of modified lamp is used to carry the Holy Fire from Jerusalem to Orthodox Communities around the world during the Orthodox Easter period.<https://www.protectorlamp.com/product/torch-relay-lamp/>Part list(1) Bonnet subassembly (incl. bonnet round, bonnet top disc, four rivets at one side, and nine rivets on the top)(2-6) Support pillar (5 off)(7) Flint wheel button(8) Flint wheel(9) Unidentified(10) Bottom fibre washer(11-12) Upper base plate w/ threaded holes for (34), and integrated flint housing post(13) Striker key(14) Pinion spindle(15) Pinion wheel(Not shown) Flint housing w/ external thread and bevelled entrance, compression spring, flint housing cap, flint(16) Lower base plate w/ external thread(17) Lower fuel felt disc-shaped(18) Fuel tank case(19) Adjustable wick tube(20) Permanent wick tube(21) Permanent wick holding pin(22) Permanent wick(Not numbered) Replaceable wick(23) Flame adjuster knob(24) Flame adjuster spindle(25) Through tube across fuel tank(26) Upper fuel felt doughnut-shaped(27) Fuel tank bottom cover plate w/ soldered joint(28-29) My lamp differs here — Fuel spout(30-33) My lamp differs here — Fuel filler flap, hinge rivet, and filter mesh inside(34) My lamp differs here — Bevelled sheet steel cover plate w/ two screws(35) My lamp differs here(36) Toughened Pyrex glass cylinder(37) Interlock pillar(38) Top fibre washer(39) Pillar top ring w/ internal thread(40) Bonnet bottom ring w/ external thread(41) Lock pin (4 off)(42) Name plate (incl. two rivets)( )(44) Inner gauze (incl. brass ring)(45) Outer gauze (incl. brass ring)(46) Hook eye(47) Hook ring
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Post by Wheldale on Jan 27, 2019 15:15:16 GMT -5
I’ve just seen this description on eBay along with a all brass type 6 for sale at over £1000!
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Post by John on Jan 28, 2019 10:41:42 GMT -5
CO2 about 0.03% in normal atmosphere.
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Post by smithy on Feb 1, 2019 14:27:11 GMT -5
The Patent “Protector” Safety Lamp
LETR.
| DESCRIPTION
| A. | HOOK | B. | EYELET & WASHER | C. | CASE | J. | NUT | K. | VESSEL | D. | INSIDE MIDDLE | E. | OUTSIDE | F. | SAFETY GAUZE | G. | GLASS | H. | STANDARDS | I. | SLIDE WIRE | L. | EXTINGUISHING PLATE | P. | TRIMMING WICK | Q. | SPONGE | S. | ASBESTOS WASHERS | O. | PERMANENT WICK | U. | OIL SPOUT COVER | T. | ” SPOUT | N. | WICK TUBE | |
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heritagephotoarchive.co.uk/p40089758/h30DFED84#h26e639ea
INSTRUCTIONS FOR THE Patent “Protector” Safety Lamp.
This Lamp is built on the principles of a Miner's Safety Lamp, and when properly assembled, is safe in all gassy atmospheres.
TRIMMING.
In trimming the Lamp the permanent wick (O) inside the tube (N) must not be interfered with, except just loosened lightly with a nail or awl, the object of this being to get the feed to the trimming wick. In no case must it be rammed, otherwise it will form a “plug” and prevent free burning. The trimming wick (P) is intended to be changed about once per month. To trim, remove old trimming wick, take length of new wick in left hand, place one end in tube (N), press wick down tube with awl until the end makes good contact with the permanent wick, then cut the wick with scissors, leaving about 1/20 in. projecting evenly above the top of the tube. Care should be taken with this, otherwise the light will flicker, and this shows bad trimming. You will note the trimming wick is only about 1¼ inches long. Keep the wick clean. The wick used is made specially for Lamps using “Spirit,” as the ordinary Oil Lamp Wick is unsuitable. In case of emergency, Colton Wool can be placed in the wick tube as a substitute.
FILLING. To fill the Lamp get small tundish and pour sufficient spirit into the reservoir through the spout (T) to thoroughly saturate the sponge inside. After filling it is advisable to turn the reservoir upside down run off superfluous fluid. With reference to the spirit required for burning in the Lamp. Pratt's or B.P. “Aviaton” Spirit should be used, or failing this No. 1 Spirit of a specific gravity of ·725/30 or less. The heavier grades of petrol (or benzol) must not be used, as they make the flame smoke and choke the gauze with soot. You can easily test the quality of your spirit by burning in the Lamp, as the whiter the flame the better the spirit.
LIGHTING. To light same swing back the cover (U) of spout (T) unscrew and remove the vessel (K), afterwards unscrewing from the Lamp the extinguishing plate (L), this plate should then be placed in position over the wick tube (N). Care should be taken not to drop this plate, as the thread may get burred, in which case you would have difficulty in screwing up. The Lamp is now ready for lighting; the vessel and the extinguishing plate should then be screwed on to the Lamp together. You will appreciate this plate remaining in the Lamp after the vessel has been detached is to make the Lamp automatic in extinguishing the light, and also to regulate the size of flame. It is advisable to fasten the cover (U) with some kind of tapered peg. Fill and light the Lamp away from your stock of petrol, as naked lights should not be used where spirit is stored. The Lamp should burn 30 to 36 hours from one filling.
CLEANING. To clean and examine the gauze (F), first remove the vessel (K); secondly withdraw the brass slide wire (I) which acts as a lock for the shield, then unscrew the top part or shield (C) from the middle portion (E). When re-assembling the Lamp see that the Glass (G) and two packing washers (S) are in position (i.e., one washer between the glass and the gauze and other at the base of the glass). The shield (C) should then be screwed reasonably tight. THIS IS IMPORTANT.
REGULATING FLAME. On lighting the Lamp it is advisable to have the flame rather smaller than it is intended to work with (especially if the Lamp is put under the Bonnet while the Engine is hot), as when the metal becomes warm it causes the flame to increase slightly, so that if it is too large when the Lamp is ready for use, the tendency is to draw the material up faster than there is oxygen to feed it and ensure perfect combustion, giving as a result too large a flame or an inferior purity of whiteness, thus sacrificing light. If carried to any extent this would prevent the Lamp burning the proper length of time. Any Smoke given off is a sure sign of imperfect combustion and waste of burning material; also that the flame has been kept too high. This should be impressed upon users of the Lamp, as by allowing a large flame to exist it does not necessarily mean an increased light. Should the flame get too high it can be regulated to the size required by slightly unscrewing the bottom of the Lamp. See that too much air does not get under the Garage Doors, otherwise the Heat generated by the Lamp will be circulated, whereas the idea is to "trap" it round the Engine. Finally, the chief points to note are:—
(1)—Only good clean spirit of a specific gravity of ·725/30 or less should be used. (2)—Keep Lamp clean and brush gauze free from rust or soot. See the gauze is perfect, as this is the chief point of safety. If a wire is broken or rusted through, a new gauze should be fitted. (3)—When the Lamp is not in use it should be kept in a dry place, otherwise efficiency may be impaired through the sponge and wick absorbing moisture. (4)—Don’t let the lamp run short of petrol, as if it burns completely out the wick gets charred, and this means cleaning and in some case re-trimming. Attachments:
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Post by bjw1970 on Jun 20, 2021 7:50:18 GMT -5
I've just inherited one of these lamps. The main issue I have is that it lights then goes out after a couple of seconds. I have fitted a new wick and using lighter fuel. Any advice appreciated.
Cheers
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Post by John on Jun 21, 2021 6:13:49 GMT -5
I've just inherited one of these lamps. The main issue I have is that it lights then goes out after a couple of seconds. I have fitted a new wick and using lighter fuel. Any advice appreciated. Cheers Make sure the wick you replaced is touching the lower wick.There are two wicks to a safety lamp, the lower wick can only be replaced by unsoldering the base plate and rarely if ever needs replacing. But, the top wick MUST touch the lower wick for the lamp to work. Lighter fuel is the wrong fuel, but I don't know if or how it works.
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Post by Wheldale on Jun 26, 2021 11:40:39 GMT -5
I've just inherited one of these lamps. The main issue I have is that it lights then goes out after a couple of seconds. I have fitted a new wick and using lighter fuel. Any advice appreciated. Cheers What lamp have you got? If it’s a type 6 make sure the middle shut off ring is open and as soon as the wick lights turn it down until the air starts moving otherwise the flame will use all the air in the lamp.
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Post by tcoxon on Jan 1, 2022 14:59:27 GMT -5
I’ve just inherited a protector type 6. Managed to clean it up but having a problem with the lighting. When a flint is in, the starter bar can’t turn the wheel when you push it in. As soon as you take the flint out, it can spin it. I can’t figure it out, any ideas please?
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Post by John on Jan 1, 2022 17:48:29 GMT -5
I’ve just inherited a protector type 6. Managed to clean it up but having a problem with the lighting. When a flint is in, the starter bar can’t turn the wheel when you push it in. As soon as you take the flint out, it can spin it. I can’t figure it out, any ideas please? Flint, the wrong size, ie too long??? Or you're tightening the flint holder too tight, my guess is you are tightening the flint holder too tight.
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Post by Wheldale on Jan 8, 2022 3:49:28 GMT -5
I would agree with John about the flint cap being screwed on too tight. I have about 10 protectors in my lamp collection, I use zippo flints in these lamps. Loosen the flint cap a little and try the striker again.
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